Sick Beardie after Ivomec UPDATE Samson Passed Away

[augustwst]

Was wondering if anyone had any input...

Took in stool sample from Samson. He is 9 yrs. old, 1.4lbs. Tested positive for nematodes. Was given .1 ( don't know .1 of what, mL?) of Ivomec. When they brought him out from the exam room, he was upside down, which I thought was odd. Held him for awhile to warm up, seemed to be ok. Took him home, seemed well for awhile.

He fell asleep earlier than he normally does, and that's pretty much all that he's done since. This was yesterday afternoon. He's been sleeping ever since. Hasn't eaten or drank all day. He's moved a couple of times, but not much at all. He's basically just breathing and sleeping. I called my vet this afternoon and they said it was not a common side effect of the Ivomec, but the vet was not in. The emergency vet that sees reptiles is not able to take blood. My biggest fear is liver or kidney failure. Is it possible that he was given an improper dosage of the drug?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, unfortunately, Ivermectin, or Ivomec is really not a good drug to be given to reptiles, at all. You are going to need to begin flushing his system out with water & pedialyte, up to 4-6 cc's or ml's daily for awhile.
Also, try to keep him a little bit warmer at night right now to help his body out & keep his metabolism up to boot the drug out of his body more quickly. Don't keep him too hot, but warmer than normal. So either use a sock filled with rice & heated up in the microwave, with a towel in between the sock & your dragon, or a heating pad on low with a towel in between the pad & your dragon.
Please keep us posted on him. Would you happen to know the dose he was given??

Tracie

 

[augustwst]

Thank you for your help. This morning I found another vet who is certified in herp. Talked to him this morn. Told him about the Ivomec, he seemed to agree. Took Samson to work with me on a heating pad and his condition continued to worsen. I actually thought he was dead, completely limp. That was at about 12pm. I immediately drove him to this vet 1hr.away. He gave him fluids, took cultures, xray. Some of the tests aren't back yet. At 6pm I took him home. Have to give him flucort & albon 2times day. Hand feeding him special food 4times day. Vet said he also found E coli. Prognosis - not sure if he will live or die. However, he looks a million times better than this morn, but still Very VERY sick. He actually moved a couple of times.

After seeing the vet, he seems to think that the Ivomec was a coincidence and he would have gotten sick anyway. Not sure how i feel about this. Seems a bit too coincidental to me.

Can you direct me to some concrete evidence on the Ivomec topic with reptiles? Also he was given .1mL orally.

I have a nite lite on him, currently 84 degrees where he's laying. Is that good?

 

[amylee159]

Wow! Im glad to hear that he is looking a little better. Im glad that you found a vet that actually knows reptiles I really hope he continues to improve!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Here are a couple of websites that talk about the hazards of the use of Ivomec or Ivermectin:


http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com/parasite.htm

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12973


Anyway, Ivermectin is really only for mites, so I don't know why they use it for much of anything else. It is very hard to get it in a small enough dose for small animals. The dosage should be .01mg/kg of bodyweight which is a TINY amount. At your .1, that is too much.

Did the vet do a fecal then, & detected the E coli? That is possible, but, if he was not sick before getting the Ivermectin, then I don't think the Ivermectin toxicity can be ruled out, either.

Has he done any better today?

Yes overnight, 84 is fine. Make sure to continue pushing the fluids. Maybe add in some pedialyte or some sugar free or low sugar gatorade & dilute it with water to help with electrolytes.

Tracie

 

[Weegie]

Ivomec can be used for worming but mainly used in dogs and cats.Even then if the dose is slightly off it can be dangerous.The Ivomec that vets use down here (which might be same for all) is used for cattle thats why dosage, even on dogs and cats,is very small and has to be very accurate.

 

[augustwst]

So, I've been hand feeding him for two days now and he hasn't pooped. Seems a little stronger than Wednesday, not much. I've been watching his little pulse in his back leg, seems tachy, but I'm no doc. I'm just sooo sorry I didn't do my homework before taking him to the vet. Thank you all for your help and information. I will continue to log his recovery. I just wish that he would poo.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So how is he doing this evening? Continue to push fluids until he begins to feel better. Also, try to get some food into him also, to help his system metabolize that drug.
How is the rice sock doing for him? I hope it is working out for him overnight right now.
Yeah you are right, it is a dewormer but really should only be used for livestock & maybe mammals. It really should not be used for reptiles, period. There are too many variables to consider.


Tracie

 

[augustwst]

He seemed a little stronger today. His heartbeat seems odd, but stronger than before. I just want him to poo.

I just ran into something interesting on the post right above me...from
BDBuddy. They said that after hand feeding their beardie, he would run around against the glass for 2 min or so and then pass out. Today, mine has done the same. Do you think he's having trouble swallowing? Or trying to fight his food in him? What on earth does this mean? Mine is really sick, Is he delirous? Have you heard of this?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Is this what your dragon is doing, running into the glass right now? Could he be too hot, as well? What do you measure your temps with?
If he is not taking the food that you are trying to feed him, he either doesn't want it, or he doesn't like the taste of it.
Does he appear to have trouble swallowing? It is possible that he has had a reaction to the Ivomec kind of like anaphylaxis so it would not surprise me if he had that type of reaction to it.
Any food that you do give, make sure the slurry is thin enough to where he wont choke on it.

Tracie

 

[augustwst]

No, after I feed him and put him back in the cage he runs around along the glass for a couple min, & then gets weak again and goes to sleep. I can see him breathing and I can see his pulse in his leg. My guess was that he didn't like the food or had trouble swallowing maybe? I don't know.... I have a digital therm. ..96 basking... 80 day, cool side. Have been keeping a nite bulb on him due to his illness. currently 83

 

[augustwst]

oh also, he does seem to be hot. He keeps moving out of the basking temp during the day to the cool side, or laying up against the glass. Which sucks because I want him to poo! However, the key word is MOVING! On Wednesday, he was marked for dead... I just hope he continues to recover. He's just very very weak. I'd like to give him a bath, but I'm afraid It will stress him too much

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, he could be either too hot or just dehydrated because of the meds. They can really dry them out & he just might not want to be as warm as he usually is. Are you able to get a good amount of fluids into him then?
How is his breathing looking, is it labored, or slow & steady? How about his eyes, are they bright or sunken in? Is his beard darkened at all?

I hope he is doing better soon.

Tracie

 

[augustwst]

Hello! Thanks again for your concern. It's now been 2 1/2 weeks Samson's been sick. The past week I've been feeding him herbavore critical care ( my doc said 2 1/2 cc 4 x day) which is almost impossible to get him to eat. In addition to that I've added chicken #2 gerber, please dont gross out - I found at the local pet store frozen pinky mice, blendered them & fed it to him through a syringe. Have mixed in crickets blendered, & fluids & tried romaine. I'm getting some acidophilus tomorrow and jumpstart. I bathe him everyday. He's pooped twice in two weeks, but he's still weak and all he does is sleep.

My vet appt is 2morrow. he says if not better, put to sleep. I'm not ready to give up on this guy, I'll self medicate if i have to. That's why I'm getting the probiotics. any other suggestions you may have would be wonderful! Also, how much food in a day should I be giving him to sustain life? I feel like I'm not feeding him enough. I've been keeping at 90 degrees.

THanks sooo much

Concerned

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

No do not give up on him. You are doing great.
How much does he weigh? On the average, you can feed .5ml or cc per 50 grams of bodyweight. So if your dragon weighs 100 grams, he can have 1ml or cc of food, or slightly more.
As far as the temps go, please keep him at the optimal basking temps otherwise, he will not be able to digest the food you are giving him. The recommended basking temps are 95-110 & that will help his body metabolize the drug more quickly & pass it through his system.
If he is kept at too low of temps, he can't digest or metabolize his foods properly & that will make him sick. Has he gone to the bathroom lately?
Continue with the syringe feeding, & the probiotics & extra oral fluids, daily. Increase the basking temps for him. Use a bright white light & a digital probe or a temp gun to ensure the temps are right on. Please let me know how he is doing.


Tracie