Setup rundown and lighting question.

[Wookster]

Hi folks,
I'm a new beardie owner and 1 week in I'm onto my second one. I was wondering if I could list out my setup and see if you see any problems with it. I also have a question about UV lighting. here goes.

Setup:
20G Long tank
wire mesh hood.
~5-6" high basking rock/hide
mini dual dome with 75W heat and UVB 10 compact
repti carpet.
a small rock/hide on the cool side.
two thermometers.
using a digital IR thermometer. Basking rock is anywhere from 101-118. temp gun has a very small read area so it picks up every dark spot as warmer, lighter as cooler. I can even trace out the last place he basked by the temp differential. cool side is around 75. warm side is about 86. set the thermostat in the house to kick on the heat if it drops below 70. no more cool fall nights till I buy a under tank heater.

I'm using the same setup on this beardie as I did the first one I lost. This one is supposedly the same age as the first one I bought at a reptile show, except three times bigger. and maybe 1.5 times longer. Right off the bat their behavior is night and day. first guy would lay flat all the time. only moved a few times in the 3 days he was with us. it never moved to the basking light, I had to put it there. If it got too hot it would fall off the rock to the repti carpet and stay there. It just seemed traumatized by the whole show/transport experience.
This new guy....is a character. He didn't seemed frightened by transportation as much as he wanted to whoop somebody for moving him. Constantly looks around. If you walk up to the glass he will jump off his perch and stare you down. Fast too, so incredibly fast. So I've got crickets and a list of veggies the pet store was feeding him. going to continue that. It's used to a lot of handling, but i'm going to give it a week to get situated. it's 11pm here, and I can see in the dim lighting that he is trying to find a way to use his tail and the basking rock to get to the top of the tank and escape.

does the setup sound good?

Second question. UVB is important. I have the UVB light on the dual dome raised about 16 inches from the top of the basking rock. This was to get the temps right for the heat lamp. I also have a dual fixture incandescent hood from a 10 gal aquarium. If a little UVB is good, is a lot better? should I throw a couple UVB 10 CFL's in that guy and give the beardie a tan? I could even move the existing UVB lamp to the fixture and get a second then put a very small nighttime heat lamp in the dome so I can enjoy the cooler weather. can you overdo the UVB?

thanks in advance. My daughter named the new guy Happy. So far, he doesn't come across as happy, healthy, but not happy. I really think he is ticked off he was removed from the pet store.

 

[KRayne]

Your set up sounds pretty good. The UVB light should be a tube light, reptisun 10.0 t8 reptisun t5 and Arcadia 12% bulbs are all good. The tube light should be 6-8" away from the basking spot. The compact UVB can be harmful to beardies. I wouldn't put more UVB bulbs in the tank. Also, the smallest tank you'll want as he grows is 40 gallon. If you need extra heat at night you should buy a Ceramic heat emitter instead of a under tank heat pad but if you have to use an under tank heat pad make sure to fold a towel and place it in between your Beardie and the bottom of the tank where the pad is. Neither of these are necessary unless the temperature drops below 65*F. Your Beardie probably has relocation stress. I'm sure he'll be happy in his own home soon.

 

[Taterbug]

The UVB light should be a tube light, reptisun 10.0 t8 reptisun t5 and Arcadia 12% bulbs are all good. The tube light should be 6-8" away from the basking spot.
but if you have to use an under tank heat pad make sure to fold a towel andplace it in between your Beardie and the bottom of the tank where the pad is.

This is potentially dangerous advice, please be careful when recommending distances from UVB lamps. T5 lighting is significantly stronger that T8, and the typical T5 fixture with a reflector @ 6-8" would be unacceptably close. These lamps are intended for use at distances 12"+

Use of a towel or other object over the mat does not provide a means of safetly using a UTH. These devices are fine to use (though unnessiary) when controlled by a thermostat which will regulate the temperature at a safe level.

Compact reptisun 10.0 bulbs are not dangerous per say but it's very difficult to get a good gradient with them and the useful area is too small. They are very strong up close, and very quickly drop off to be too weak. Even with a bank of them it will be difficult to safely give your dragon the right exposure. It is possible to over do UVB. You want a gradient just like with heat, with the most uv at the basking site and areas of zero (both warm and cool) for the dragkn to choose. Tube bulbs or Mercury vapor bulbs like the MegaRay or Arcadia lamps would be a better option.

Other than enclosure size and UV your temps and setup sound fine. As above poster suggests a 20g will very soon be outgrown. I would recommend investing in better lights with the larger enclosure and upgrading as soon as you are able.

 

[KRayne]

Sorry. You're totally right, I definitely should have been more specific. Thanks for catching my mistake.
I heard that even with thermostats heat pads can still short and potentially cause damage. Is that true or was I misinformed? I hate giving false information.

 

[Taterbug]

Sorry. You're totally right, I definitely should have been more specific. Thanks for catching my mistake.
I heard that even with thermostats heat pads can still short and potentially cause damage. Is that true or was I misinformed? I hate giving false information.

Maybe. The way most thermostats (esp the cheap ones) work is they have an on/off switch and if the device overheats the thermostat stop providing power. Assuming it setup properly, if the device shorts out or fails and overheats the thermostat should shut it off. It's also possible for the thermostat to fail and depending on the electronics it could fail "on" and stop controlling the mat. Some stats are specifically designed to fail "off" only. Heat mats and thermostats are really popular with snake and gecko keepers and I rarely if ever have seen them cause a problem like an uncontrolled heat source would.

Like you said though, heat mats are not so useful for beardies. They are more like an electric blanket, they warm up themselves and what they touch but not the air or surrounding too much. Though a thermostat can be used to control a che as well

 

[KRayne]

Okay. Thank you

 

[Wookster]

Thanks for the feedback. The 20L is home till it outgrows. One of the advantages of my place of employment is we can cut and weld acrylic. So I am in the process of designing a custom tank that will span the top of my bookshelf. End dimensions would be roughly 10'x 2.5'. I'm still planning to find some kind of backup source for night heating. I live in Kansas and our weather can be a bit on the extreme side. Last Thursday it was in the 90's. Friday a front came through and dropped a tornado about 15 miles south of here. Then it reached 38 degrees that night with a high of 68 the next day. All it takes is not checking the weather one time and the house can be pretty darn frigid in the morning. I am concerned about the UVB lighting. the heat/UVB is raised above the tank lid. the temps are just perfect, but the steel grate I've read cuts down on UVB and the reflective dome increases it. seems like a lot of guessing for what seems like a critical component of the reptiles health. I was looking at UV meters and they are EXPENSIVE!!! My gut tells me that single bulb that far away is not sufficient. This isn't the pigs tail style compact. I'm seriously considering a dual compact in the old aquarium hood and a second night light in the dome. The hood would be close enough to the basking spot that it would be equivalent to having it in the dome with the dome on the lid. At least Happy seems to be living up to his name. Stress marks are gone this morning. nice white belly. Still think he's waiting for a chance to seek vengeance for being moved. He moves around and turns his head so much it feels like he is planning something. Wouldn't let me hold him at the pet store, but crawled right into my 4 year old daughters hand and when she tries to set him down, turned 180 degrees and climbed back in her hand. So I guess it likes her and wants to kill me......great, he and the cat have something in common.

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from General to Enclosures

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I honestly never recommend compact/coil lights because they have been shown to be hazardous to their eyes & health. Plus, they aren't worth the money because they really don't emit much UVB quality anyway.
For nighttime heating, the ceramic heat emitters are usually the best & safest way. Living in Kansas I am sure you will need it!
If you are going to mount a UVB on top of the screen top, then the High Output T5 tube bulbs are the best as they can penetrate through the screen, within reason that is. Either the Reptisun 10 or the Arcadia 12% have the T5 high output models. How far do you plan on having the light from Happy?

I am glad he seems to be adjusting now, it just takes a little bit of time.

Tracie

 

[Wookster]

Man, this is where I get so confused. I hear the CFL's are bad, then I see posts with data saying the reformulated ones have eliminated the UVC and are much the same as the tube type bulbs, just a much tighter gradient of exposure. I really can't fit a T5 across the top of this 20l and give him any way to get away from the light. I have a dual fixture T5 aquariumlight i can put over his adult enclosure. it will be plenty of UVB at that point. Right now I have a mini deep dome over his basking spot. im certain at the 4 inches above the lid i have it elevated it was useless for the UVB bulb to be in there. I moved the uvb bulb to a hood for a 10 gal aquarium. it has a metal reflector. It is set up directly next to the basking bulb, with an ornament underneath it so if Happy feels like it he can get within a couple inches of the bulb. Starting to get a little concerned, he is very stress marked this morning. Still as alert as can be, immediatly moved to his basking spot when I fired up the bulbs. Wanted nothing to do with the crickets I put in there though. In fact if they got on his basking spot he used his back feet to shoot them across the tank. I found out that while I left to take care of an emergency at the shop last night. My wife and daughter couldn't resist and took him out. I don't even know how they got him out. If I as much as get near the tank I get the puff up and head bob routine. I guess as long as it hates me it means its healthy. I'll take it.