*Separated our beardies... PLEASE HELP!!!

[csa007]

Hello,
My boyfriend and I purchased 2 babies in the beginning of January from a pet store. The girl who sold them to us obviously knows nothing because she said they would be just fine together and told us to feed all the wrong things, sold us a bad light, etc etc.

We had them both living in a 60 gal (it's 4 feet long) with everything right. A few weeks ago I started to notice signs of dominance and aggression. Then it became really apparent when one, Wallace, grew to be almost twice as big as the other, Norbert. We decided to separate them so I spent my savings and more to get a brand new set up for Norbert at my house. I got him a better light (reptisun 10.0) and moved him to his new house last night. I have repticarpet, a hammock, a piece of wood, a half log, a hide, and a plastic bamboo plant.

I know they get shocked, especially from transport and stuff. Anyway, I left him alone for the night and in the morning he was still sleeping after 10am, but my boyfriend says he woke up pretty early at his house. He used to love to bask and now he is just on the complete opposite side of the tank just laying in his bamboo plant up against the glass almost. He slept all day and when he didn't he showed no interest in food... only his reflection in the glass got him rowdy.

I had greens ready in the morning and after two hours under the light I added a few crickets. Crickets were walking ON him and he didn't even care. He just shook them off. So now he hasn't eaten in over 24 hours and I am worried about him. He is way too small for his age and I am sure it's because his brother dominated and ate more, but my boyfriend would feed him separately most of the time to make sure he was okay and eating.

I at least didn't want him dehydrated so I misted him and dropped water on his snout and he drank it as it ran down to his mouth. He hasn't moved from his corner spot in hours. Is this all normal for a dragon to do just because he moved locations? What should I do if this persists?

 

[LJean]

Even just rearranging furniture in an enclosure can stress them out sometimes. I hope that it is just relocation stress. Have you checked the temps in the new viv?

 

[csa007]

yeah on the cool side it is about 70-75 and on the basking it is over 90. he never moves though so he is always in the 75 area.

 

[Ethelia]

Some dragons suffer hugely from relocation stress.
Some can throw absolute fits if you even rearrange their viv, as Ljean said.
When I moved my 4 week old from paper towels to tiles in the same tank she didnt eat for two days.
Change is frightening, and is differnt for every dragon. It can be days it can be weeks.

90 is actually rather low for a basking site. Adults need 90-100. Babies need 95-110.
How are you measuring your temps? Any dials and stick ons are useless. They can be up to 20* off.

If your baby is still in panic mode and will not move I would move him yourself to the basking site in the morning.
If they are cold they have no energy and will not move ontop of just sulking.
Other than moving to bask and bathing I would keep the handling to a minimum until he adjusts.

If he goes another day without eating I would advise you get yourself some babyfood (chicken/turkey and veg) and pop a dollup on his nose and hopefully after a few minutes he should get quisitive enough to at least try a lick.
If he likes it you can keep just dabbing it on his nose. Ive had to go through this with Miso. Unfortunatly she isnt a fan of protien, but just LOVES her salad.

Keep us updated.
Holly

 

[csa007]

Well I bought some thermometers from Zoo Med that look like compasses (not just the sticky strips) and it has pretty good reviews. I have my 150 watt coil lamp up all the way though so that's all I can do. He just keeps hiding under his rock cave thing, and he still hasn't eaten. I will do what you said and force him to bask. I'm just worried he wont eat for too long. He is so stubborn sometimes when I put water on his nose he will let it drip without licking it. Hopefully he starts acting better. My mom said today a little after 11am he ventured away from him bamboo and to the side of the terrarium. She said he was clawing at the edge and jumping up, so she moved a pic of my boyfriend and I to the edge and he just stared at it before returning to his hide.

One good thing is he left a nice poop on his half log so at least I know he is digesting food. However, it has a little yellow piece on top of the white and black.. is that normal? I haven't seen his poop since my bf started feeding them phoenix worms, so is that just it or can he be sick?

Hope to hear from you soon. I'm worried about my Norbs

 

[Ethelia]

Hi there,
Yup I had those little circular dials too. People on here told me to get a different sort and I wasnt really convinced. Bought a new one and yup it was 15 whole degrees off :shock:
Now that is the difference between a sick dragon and a happy one!
The bes way to get accurate temp readings is to buy yourself a digital thermometre with wire probe. They arent expensive. You can pick one up online, or you can buy the Accurite brand one from WallMart for $12.
Trust me its an investment thats well worth it.
The fact that you have a 150watt bulb is a little scary as I know your tank is not that big. I have a 100w bulb which lights and heats my 120gallon tank, and even keeps it a little too hot sometimes.

Ouch. This might hurt.
Im afraid coil lamps are highly hazardous to dragons health. They put out very poor levels of UVB and the light is so bright it has been known to cause severe optical discomfort in dragons.
Is little Norbert keeping one or two eyes closed? If so this may well be the cause.
You need to get that bulb out immediately.

Ok so if we are getting rid of the coil UVB you need to do the following things:
Get a Repti-Sun 10.0 tube bulb (not reptiglo or any form of compact or coil bulb)
Install this 6-8 inches away from your dragon.
Then add a normal spotlight household bulb for a basking spot.
In my babies 75gal I have a 40w spotlight bulb in there from the local store. That keeps things nice and toasty.
You may have to experiment with different wattages to get the temps right.

I also notice that you have a hide in your viv.
Hides are never recommended for babies, because they are highly likely to just stay in them all day whilst they are still adjusting. The dont know better at this age, ie. that they need heat and to bask. Even healthy babies will hide all day given the chance.
Remove the hide right away, or if you cant just block it up.
If your baby sleeps in his hide you can pop it back in again at night.


Im afraid I just cant picture what you mean in regards to the poop. Perhaps you could take a picture next time (delightful I know!).


As you can see there ARE some obvious enviromental issues that could be causing Norberts behaviour.
I would imagine you have the same set up in your other babies viv? I know this may cause you to huff and puff and think that as ONE dragon is healthy it cant be the lighting, but you must remember that all dragons are different and have different tollerances. Norbert has undergone additional stress of moving which may have tipped him over the edge.
If you correct them as soon as you possibly can. Its vital to get babies in the optimal conditions.

Good luck and keep us updated.
Holly

 

[csa007]

I will turn down the heat assuming that if it says it is 95 it might be more. And I do have a reptisun 10.0 UVB... the coil is the ceramic heat emmitter. That is adjustable so I'll turn it down right now. Could he be in brumation?

And he hasn't gone in the hide for a day so I think that is okay now, but if I find him in it during daylight I will...



*I just got my dad's digital temp reader gun. I'm sure it is very accurate. On the cool side it was a range of 75-80 and the hot side was 101 at the highest point and 85 on the ground. Maybe those readers aren't too off when they're new?

My question now is I have a strand of fake bamboo that is suctioned cup and the only place he stays is there, which is only about 6 inches from the top, but he reaches out until he's only about an inch away. Should I move this down so he isn't so close to the UVB? I don't want to cause him more stress, but if I need to I will.



*also, when I do move him in the morning to get some heat, he goes to the glass and just tries to claw his way out like something is in there about to get him or something... I don't know what his deal is. He can stand on all four legs and just on two or even one sometimes while up on the glass, so I know he isn't weak or anything. And the light isn't too bright. He is either asleep or has them both all the way open.

 

[LJean]

Just do your best to be sure he doesn't get too close to the UVB light.

As for seeing some yellow in the urate, it could mean he is becoming dehyrdated. Though your temps seem good. Try to get him to drink some water if you can or give him a warm bath.

Can he see his sibling? He does seem a bit freaked out about something.

 

[csa007]

I moved the suction cup for the bamboo down so he can't get to close to it. I actually got him to eat a little melon today which made me so happy, but he is ignoring crickets. He cant see his sibling because he is at my house and the sib is at my boyfriend's.

He even basked today! I turned the temp down a little and my mom said he stayed under the heat for a while today on his log. He is getting better, he is just not eating enough at all! I took him out today because he practically begged me and he ate the melon from my hands, and when I did he went back to his normal coloring and seemed fine. I think he just needs to get used to his new tank. No idea though

 

[Ethelia]

Taking a bite of food is still a great sign. It might not seem like it, but its baby steps when it comes to relocationstress.
Basking for a while is fantastic news aswell.

Have you tried offering your baby worms? You can get tiny Butterworms Silkworms or Pheonix worms?
My baby Miso has never willingly eaten crix or locust. Some babies just dont like them.
It might be worth picking up a pot and trying.
It also means you can leave them in a bowl in her viv too.

I really would consider babyfood at this point. Just to keep her topped up on protien.

Have you considered replacing the bulb yet?
Holly

 

[csa007]

I don't see why I need to replace anything. I have the ReptiSun 10.0 and I turned the heat emitter down enough that even though it's a 150 watt, the temps are correct now.

I know my baby likes crickets... he hunts them and eats a ton. Well, at least he did up until the day I moved him to my house. He's had phoenix worms before but I don't think he liked them too much.

What brand and kind of baby food would everyone recommend?

 

[Ethelia]

I seem to have misunderstood something.
I thought you had a coil UVB bulb. These are highly hazardous to dragons. I appologise if I missread what you wrote.

Chicken/Turkey + any kind of veg combo is a good one to use. If you can get it Chicken + squash is especially good. Any brand will do as long as it is organic. You dont want any baby food with anything added.

Holly

 

[csa007]

I didn't know dragons could eat non-insect/mouse meat. I will try but I don't know if I can get to the store by tonight to try that. He falls asleep really early. Good to know he can eat that though.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Ethelia]

I would not recommend mice for your dragon. Im sure you are just interested in the matter rather than considering it for your baby ^_^

Pinkies are only for adults, and even then it is a highly debated topic as mice can lead to impaction.
Generally pinkies should only be fed to gravid females.

The only safe way to feed mice to a baby is to... well... liquidise them in the blender and spoon feed it. Obviously this isnt ideal or plesant.
I assure you mice are not a neccisary addition to your dragons diet

HOlly

 

[zebraflavencs]

Stage One baby foods are what you would be looking for, and these are normally found almost everywhere.
Janie.