Scared....beardie is sick, fatty liver disease?

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Jericho is a 2 1/2 y.o. male. He's a super citrus, so he's normally very yellow. Right now he is dark and has had a black beard most of the day. He didn't turn his beard black for the first time until just a few months ago, i was starting to think he couldn't. So this is a new thing for him. He's also been very lethargic the past couple days and not interested in eating. Yesterday he had some greens, today he wouldn't touch them.

He also kept sucking in his stomach on the sides. When I picked him up and pet his back he did it again. He is obviously in some kind of pain. I went to put him back in his tank and noticed something wet. It looked like a poop but when I cleaned it up I noticed it was undigested greens. He must have thrown up yesterday's veggies. His eyes are also sunken in.

I just put him in the bath and he drank a tiny bit and then pooped. It was small like a baby poop. Probably because he hasn't been eating.

I've been reading online and fatty liver disease sounds like the most likely culprit. His set up is good, but here's the run down:

48" viv w/tile substrate.
2 reptisun 10.0 UV bulbs, one in the front one in the back.
A 60w reveal bulb for basking at 105 degrees. Cool side is 80 degrees.
Baths 3-5 times a week. He occasionally drinks in the tub when he wants. Sometimes I offer water from a dropper, sometimes he drinks sometimes not.
He gets collard greens and kale as his normal veggies. I offer other things sometimes but he doesn't seem to care much for them.
The issue of debate is the superworms. Some people say they are fine as a staple and others disagree. He eats them daily.
Now I'm concerned that we've caused this disease from fatty worms. I'm going to call the vet in the morning and see what they suggest. We have another beardie Tyrion who is a 1 1/2 y.o. male and has the exact same set up and diet and seems fine so far.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
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Hello,

I am sorry to hear he isn't feeling well!
Your setup sounds fine. How close are the tube UVB lights? Are they the long tube style lights?
The Reveal light is coated with Neodymium which can cause the lighting to be more dull to their eyes. It filters out the yellow hues. Try using a halogen flood light or a regular house hold light bulb.
As far as the superworms go, they are a good staple & normally most of the times feeding them doesn't contribute to fatty liver.
What other feeders do you use?
Collard greens are fine but feed kale sparingly as it will bind calcium absorption. How often do you give calcium for him?

Do you have any pictures of your tank setup you could post? Is his beard still black tonight?

Tracie
 

jerichosmom

Member
Original Poster
We use the tube style uv bulbs, we have a showcase cage which is 18" tall so the front light is about 14" high and the back light is about 10" high. He has a log right under the back light which puts him about 6" away from the light, and he sits on it a lot.

We don't use any other feeders anymore. We did crickets for the first 2 years, now just the worms. I rarely give kale, I just happen to have some right now. He gets collards every day. We dust the worms with calcium daily and vitamins a couple times a week.

I took him to the ER vet and they agreed it is fatty liver. He's on carnivore care 3 tbsp a day until hes better. No more worms. His beard is not black today but hes still very swollen and tender. I have to call the vet tomorrow to follow up.
 

jerichosmom

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Jericho has gotten much worse! The ER vet gave us carnivore care, which I've been giving him a few times a day. Yesterday his eyes became even more sunken in and the black beard is back. He's also had very runny urates but no poop. I gave him a bath last night and a syringe of water. Overnight he vomited up all the water and carnivore care he had that day. I'm not sure if I should even try to feed him today. I don't want to make him vomit again. I made an appt with the vet for tomorrow. Unfortunately the reptile vet isn't in today. Any suggestions?
 

Drache613

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Hello,

I am sorry to hear he has not improved yet.
The carnivore care should help out for him. Is he getting enough oral fluids?
Did they give any lactulose for fatty liver or anything else?
He is a high end morph, a citrus, is he also a hypo or trans?

Sometimes it can be inbreeding which contributes to organ issues, not just the diet.
Is he basking at all right now?
Did they do a blood test on him or not? I would recommend L-carnitine, milk thistle or serrapeptase for help on liver function.

Let us know how Jericho is doing.

Tracie
 

jerichosmom

Member
Original Poster
Jericho is having a sleep over at the vet's tonight. I took him in around 10:45 am and the vet said he was full of stool and fluid. She could barely feel his liver in there. They did an x-ray and confirmed there is a bunch of stool, but it must be watery because it wasn't as defined on the x-ray as they normally are. There is also a round white object in his abdomen just left of the spine. She's not sure if that's feces or an egg. I would be shocked if my he was a she! His liver was also pushed over to the left side so she's not confirming fatty liver just yet. She wants more info from the blood tests.

So they gave him some enemas to see if he would poop. After 3 of them still nothing, so I left. They called me at the end of the day and he had just had a 4th enema and a tiny bit of poop came out. They want to do a fecal test if they can get him to poop. They drew blood too so we'll have those results tomorrow. She mentioned seeing lymphoma and leukemia in some beardies lately. I hope it's not that! She said they rarely ever survive the treatment. :(

He is a hypo citrus. He normally is very hydrated. He will drink in the bath tub anytime he wants water. He had been basking on and off the past few days. I don't know what kind of set up he's in right now at the vet's though.

I miss my baby. I hate seeing his viv empty. I'm hoping they have good news for me in the morning.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh so he is at the vets?
They thought that they may have seen an egg? Geez, after 4 enemas I would have thought he would have been able to have gone to the bathroom.
I would love to see the blood test values when you do get them tomorrow.
I sure hope it isn't lymphoma & leukemia, as the treatment is hard on them & most don't make it through.
I know they will have him on a nice set up at the vets. When do you get to see him next?
I hope he is going to be ok! They should hydrate him at the vets too if needed.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie
 

jerichosmom

Member
Original Poster
I just spoke with the vet. She said that Jericho's blood work showed only slightly elevated calcium levels, so probably not an egg. Maybe a calcium deposit or infection. He is showing anemia though, and she can't pinpoint yet why. She will be consulting a group of exotic experts today to see if they have any suggestions. She said it could be autoimmune, but not sure. Definitely no lymphoma or leukemia (PHEW!) and no parasites. He was in a warm bath earlier, still no poop though. She said he is very well hydrated from all the enemas though. They just force fed him a little bit to see what he does with it. I'm going to call her in an hour when I get out of class and see what the status is. If she hasn't talked to her colleagues by then she said she would probably keep him another night. They said he was enjoying his bath though and he's getting a lot of attention. My poor little guy, I just want him better already!
 

diamc

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I'm sorry, you must miss him terribly. :( It sounds like they are taking very good care of him and he is getting a lot of attention, that must make you feel a little better.

That's great that there is no lymphoma or leukemia, what a relief for sure! Hopefully they will find out what the anemia is from so he can be given what he needs so that he can improve & come home with you.

Thinking about both of you.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am sure you do miss him a lot! I hope he gets to come home, soon.
So no eggs yet then?
Did they see an increased AST level or Uric acid level increase at all?
At least there is no cancer being seen on the test. That is great news! I am glad he is enjoying his baths though.
Anemia could be just a simple nutritional issue that can be corrected easily.

Let us know how Jericho is doing.

Tracie
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there ....I'm sorry to hear about your poor Jericho ! I sure hope that he/she can be helped ! I can't imagine that superworms themselves would cause fatty liver....my dragons eat them as a staple along with crickets + greens. As for Jericho, I am concerned that the vet does not seem to know the gender of your dragon? An adult dragon is easy to sex....if your vet doesn't know what Jericho is, tel them to Google " sexing your beardie" or " using a flaslight to sex a beardie" This is something that a reptile vet should be very familiar with. As for the round object on X-ray, is it possible that Jericho was out + about your house and swallowed something ? They will swallow anything they find in a flash....the forums are full of stories.

I just am concerned that 3-4 enemas is excessive, and I would advise you to please be careful that you know exactly what + why any procedures are being done. I hate to see someone spend a lot of money without any real concrete answers . If you can post the X-rays here, Tracie or someone else may possibly see something that could be helpful. Hopefully your Jericho will pull through !
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Do you have any updates for us today? I hope he is able to come home soon.
Keep us posted on Jericho! :D

Tracie
 

diamc

BD.org Sicko
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Please give us an update when you can. We are all thinking about him.
 

jerichosmom

Member
Original Poster
Hi everyone! Thank you for your support! We were away for the weekend with no internet hence my delayed response. So the vet confirmed that Jericho is a female! We have renamed her Aria. She said when they looked at the blood work and all the info they have it makes sense. She's full of eggs. We're giving her liquid calcium daily until she lays those things. Making her a dig box too. When I picked her up she was even bigger than when I dropped her off, the vet said the eggs are growing. She doesn't look like death anymore though, which makes me feel a lot better. I really thought we were gonna lose her at one point. The vet said she is the right age to start making eggs and everything in her environment must be perfect for her to ovulate. So that's a sign that we are doing everything right :)

So now we just wait for eggs..... :D
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Congratulations on becoming a [ soon to be ] Grandma ! I'm glad to hear this is what the problem was, and hopefully her laying will be trouble free. If you need advice on making a lay box there is a tutorial at the top of the page in the breeding forum. Hoping for an easy time for Jericho !
 
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