Reptile Specialist Shocked me with different Info???

[gbgirl1705]

I made an appt with Dr. Funk a well known and trusted vet that specializes in reptiles and headed up the reptile department of the Phoenix zoo for many years. He recently retired but takes clients every other month and I waited over 5 weeks to see him because I heard and read so many good things. Well, Im so confused now. He told me not to use the repti bulb that everyone on here says is imperative for our bearded dragons. He said to only use a mercury bulb 160 watt by exo terra solar glo only. He said the reptisun T8 didn't actually produce the correct amount of uva and uvb and only the mercury bulbs can and that the natural sun is obviously the best choice if that's an option as it is for me being I live in Arizona and have the desert climate.

I spent hours installing and ordering this special fixture I had to have mounted inside my tank only to be told I'm using the wrong kind. I'm so confused. He sent me home with a card that reacts to different colors under the uva/uvb lighting and hes right. The color barely changed under my $55 reptisun tube bulb. So shocked???

He also told me that those marks on my bearded dragon are not stress marks at all. Weird. I thought my juvenile bearded dragon was stressed all the time. Hes not stressed but does have parasites and 3 of them. Thank you Petsmart. Im now treating him for ponasuril, panacur, and flagyl. I hope his next fecal sample will be better or better yet they will be irradicated. Had a hell of a time getting her to take her meds. I felt like I was hurting her. UGGGG

I guess I'm confused and having a hard time knowing who is the expert on these types of things. So bummed about the parastes but I figured she probably had them. Shes healthy overall and besides changing her name she seems very content. So happy to learn shes not constantly stressed. Any feedback??

Jennifer

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Im treating her (thought her was a him before appt lol)

 

[kingofnobbys]

He's right, a MVB will produce much more intense UVA and UVB AT ANY POINT INSIDE BULB'S FOCUSED BEAM than a T8 UVB tube at any point under the tube (EVEN IF THERE IS REFLECTOR BEHIND THE TUBE).
Refer http://www.uvguide.co.uk/lightingsurveyintro.htm

A 160W MVB is a VERY STRONG MVB bulb.

The advantage of a UVB tube (T5 or T8) is the UVA and UVB is not concentrated directly under a small bulb IN A FOCUSED BEAM , but spread out under a long tube ,so beardie will exposured to UVA and UVB in most areas of the tanks it can access , whereas for a MVB the beardie needs to be under bulb in the FOCUSED beam of UVA and UVB it produces, elsewhere in the enclosure UVA and UVB fall to very low levels.

 

[Taterbug]

I have to say, it sounds like his understanding of UV technology is behind the times, and it's alarming that he gave you that card. I assume it's got a swatch of white/pink on it that is supposed change to purple under the light? While it's a neat toy it doesn't measure UVB. It reacts to UVA but there is no correlation between the two.

The T8 are not my first choice for bulbs but they are adequate.

 

[Taterbug]

THis recent publication is aimed at zoos and such and has some of themore recent information.

http://www.jzar.org/jzar/article/view/150
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/BIAZA-RAWG-UV-Tool.htm

 

[kingofnobbys]

THis recent publication is aimed at zoos and such and has some of themore recent information.

http://www.jzar.org/jzar/article/view/150 <<< is quite a good article only it gives some confusing results as it talks in terms of UVI not microwatts/cm^2 UVB , and underestimates the requirements of many (particularly native Australian reptiles UVB requirements IMO. (UVI is often greater than 13 in the natural range of most bearded dragons here in Australia esp in the warmer months , and well in excess of UVI 5 mentioned as required in the paper - guess not surprising as the authors are based in the UK , a place not known for intense or extreme UV exposure even on the hottest brit summer day..

Summer UVI in Australia

Annual UVI in Australia
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/BIAZA-RAWG-UV-Tool.htm

 

[Taterbug]

King,

The charts you show are midday values which are not the same as morning/evening values, the basking habits of wild reptiles do not generally involve prolonged full exposure at mid day. For captives is irresponsible to suggest offering these values all day. Would you also be advising to offer basking temps like you would find along with these UV levels? I believe they discuss these points in the article, but Fran is very approachable of you have questions. I challenge you to find a lighting supplier or resource that encourages a captive UV index over 7 or 8.

When comparing artificial sources emissivity as measured by common radiometers is a relatively meaningless measurement.

 

[CooperDragon]

I think that's the key. From what I know they are active in the morning and then again in the late afternoon but tend to hide and seek shade during the mid day sun and heat. Ideally we'd be able to provide them with a UV source that increases and then decreases during the day to better replicate the sun but most setups have a fixed UVB source. Given that, we need to try and provide variety through gradients throughout the enclosure and find a good happy medium to provide over the course of the day. That's why I like gradients from about 5-6UVI down to 0 to give them something similar to what they'd get in mid morning or late afternoon when they're most likely to be basking while still providing some areas of complete shade. I've had good results with it so far.

 

[gbgirl1705]

King,

The charts you show are midday values which are not the same as morning/evening values, the basking habits of wild reptiles do not generally involve prolonged full exposure at mid day. For captives is irresponsible to suggest offering these values all day. Would you also be advising to offer basking temps like you would find along with these UV levels? I believe they discuss these points in the article, but Fran is very approachable of you have questions. I challenge you to find a lighting supplier or resource that encourages a captive UV index over 7 or 8.

When comparing artificial sources emissivity as measured by common radiometers is a relatively meaningless measurement.

I have no idea what that means but I appreciate all this data. My vet is retired and may in fact be behind in the times. I just want a healthy, happy, beardie who will long as best as possible in captivity. I love these creatures. I'm hooked for life. If I have a larger home or a backyard I would have a rescue room full of neglected beardies. Make me so upset how many owners neglect their dragons because they aren't educating themselves on the proper diet, temps, uva,uvb lighting, suggested staples,and proper supplementation to properly keep their bearded friends healthy. I am a little protective of all animals And am going to be an advocate to them for as long as I'm around. Such negligence at these pet stores too. Jeez. Really fired me up!![ximg]88673 1292747083[/ximg]

 

[kingofnobbys]

King,

The charts you show are midday values which are not the same as morning/evening values, the basking habits of wild reptiles do not generally involve prolonged full exposure at mid day. For captives is irresponsible to suggest offering these values all day. Would you also be advising to offer basking temps like you would find along with these UV levels? I believe they discuss these points in the article, but Fran is very approachable of you have questions. I challenge you to find a lighting supplier or resource that encourages a captive UV index over 7 or 8.

When comparing artificial sources emissivity as measured by common radiometers is a relatively meaningless measurement.

I have no idea what that means but I appreciate all this data. My vet is retired and may in fact be behind in the times. I just want a healthy, happy, beardie who will long as best as possible in captivity. I love these creatures. I'm hooked for life. If I have a larger home or a backyard I would have a rescue room full of neglected beardies. Make me so upset how many owners neglect their dragons because they aren't educating themselves on the proper diet, temps, uva,uvb lighting, suggested staples,and proper supplementation to properly keep their bearded friends healthy. I am a little protective of all animals And am going to be an advocate to them for as long as I'm around. Such negligence at these pet stores too. Jeez. Really fired me up!![ximg]88673 1292747083[/ximg]

I think he likes you. And he's enjoying his mommy snuggle.

Yep, hard not to love the 4 legged scaley friends. And there is lot more going on between their ears than most (even most keepers) credit them with.

Pet shops should not be allowed to stock and sell reptiles PERIOD .

A lot of confusing info put out there regarding proper UV lighting , some companies are upfront and give laboratory measured flux plots using calibrated UV radiometers of UVA and UVB in microwatts per square metre vs distance from the source.

Others are less upfront and just give UVI at set distances , but no indication of the shape of the flux field. There is no correlation between UVI and the intensity of UVB (or UVA either) in microwatts/square metre.

Others are even less upfront and only give " * " ratings verses distance and nothing else.

No wonder many keepers are confused wrt UV.

 

[kingofnobbys]

King,

The charts you show are midday values which are not the same as morning/evening values, the basking habits of wild reptiles do not generally involve prolonged full exposure at mid day. For captives is irresponsible to suggest offering these values all day. Would you also be advising to offer basking temps like you would find along with these UV levels? I believe they discuss these points in the article, but Fran is very approachable of you have questions. I challenge you to find a lighting supplier or resource that encourages a captive UV index over 7 or 8.

When comparing artificial sources emissivity as measured by common radiometers is a relatively meaningless measurement.

The emissivity of the surface of a material is its effectiveness in emitting energy as thermal radiation. ie an Ideal Blackbody has e = 1.00000.
I believe you meant irradiance.

 

[Taterbug]

Sorry for hijacking a bit OP, what a cute little one you have! As to your lighting, There are multiple ways to get the job done. An MVB would be fine to use (I might look into the Arcadia of Megaray Brands personally), so would a good tube light (like Arcadia or Reptisun like you have). You can also combine the two with a bit of planning. A handy but expensive tool is a Solarmeter 6.5, it does what your card claims to do - and measures the UVB output of your lamps. It's good for setting them up but also for getting the most out of them - since you can check when it needs replaced.

 

[gbgirl1705]

Sorry for hijacking a bit OP, what a cute little one you have! As to your lighting, There are multiple ways to get the job done. An MVB would be fine to use (I might look into the Arcadia of Megaray Brands personally), so would a good tube light (like Arcadia or Reptisun like you have). You can also combine the two with a bit of planning. A handy but expensive tool is a Solarmeter 6.5, it does what your card claims to do - and measures the UVB output of your lamps. It's good for setting them up but also for getting the most out of them - since you can check when it needs replaced.

I love that idea. I will get one. Thank so much to everyone who posted all this data and gave your personal insight and recommendations. So impressed. I have reviewed and read the data and now I feel more informed and am so grateful for the info!!
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