Reptile set-up from Petland Discount

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A few days ago, my dad suddenly decided he would purchase 2 chinese water dragons without detailed research. It caused him over 300$ for the whole set-up , food, along with the 2 juvenile reptiles.

here is a pic of the 20 gal set up:

IMG_20120717_175652.jpg

IMG_20120717_175705.jpg



After I did my research I found that the dragons would need alot more space, especially for 2. They also would be both female for them to cohabitate( the guys at the store doesn't even know the gender, the 2 seem to fight alot). Because of this I did my best to convince my dad to return the dragons and get beardies instead. The store wont accept returns on these items and the only returns we made was with the chinese water dragons. Now we are planning to replace them with 2 female beardies(babies) and I wanna know which can I salvage from the enclosure my dad bought.I wanna minimize the cause of this switch as we've already spent 300$

Right now we plan on getting the beardies on craigslist locally as they are much cheaper than from breeders. If you have any suggestions please tell me. Thank you all in advance
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
jsnsan":1lgw2x15 said:
The beardies aren't going to be able to live together either. Sorry.

Agreed. Please check out this thread for more information, personal experiences and accounts, etc: http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=154908. It's basically the same situation as the Chinese water dragons (e.g., risk of fighting, territorial, do not live together in the wild, compete for resources, stress one another out, would need much more than 20 gallons--a single adult-sized bearded dragon would need at least a 40 gallon tank--etc.).

Sorry, but you should consider researching a different reptile; I don't have any experience with any of the cohabitable reptiles, so I can't help you there. But you can maybe try out the "Other Reptiles" boards on this site: http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=66.

Good luck.

EDIT: But thank you for doing research on the Chinese water dragons and now the bearded dragons to see if it is in the animals' best interest. Perhaps consider getting only one Chinese water dragon, or one bearded dragon? (If you decide to go with one bearded dragon, we would be happy to help you with the set-up and enclosure for one bearded dragon.)
 

WoolyMarmot

Member
Original Poster
I read that 2 females raised as babies together will likely be compatible if aggresion between them is not present. Im willing to take that risk and if it comes to worse I will just have 1 for adoption or in a separate tank. My Parents and dead-set on getting 2, and so is my little brother. Again, I already know that these reptiles usually try to dominate the other vice versa but I tried explaining that to my family already but theyre pretty stubborn

Also the chinese dragons are out of the picture. We cant have a very high enclosure for a tropical reptile that enjoys climbing/high areas so Id much rather have a wide tank for the beardie(s)
 

BotanicalStig

Juvie Member
They absolutely will not get along. Saying that you're willing to take the risk... and then when they DO fight, you'll put one for adoption is, frankly, disturbing. Are these pets or what? Would you throw a dog in a cage with something knowing darn well that it will end up being bullied, missing limbs, or even killed?

You need to convince your parents to get a separate tank before you get the beardies, or to only get one. Putting two together is irresponsible.
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
Aggression is one thing. Stress and competition are two different things that can happen that can reduce life span and can cause complications. Additionally, aggression can happen at any moment; not showing aggression doesn't mean that at some point in the future they won't. And it may take only one instance before one gets severely harmed.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're probably not going to find much help or support from this site, especially when it is full of experienced reptile caretakers who oppose keeping them together. But it sounds like you and your family are set on this. If you and your family are still willing to take that chance with another creature's life, then I can't say much else, and can only hope that your parents can be convinced before they make another unthought-out decision.
 

WoolyMarmot

Member
Original Poster
@ BotanicalStig
Blame those *****s at the pet store who allowed my parents to get 2 instead of flaming on me like a prick. Im an animal lover and I value their lives but I dont have the luxury of having 2 giant vivariums because I live in an apartment. When I meant adoption, I meant giving it to friends. I have friends who are experienced animal care-takers and they will gladly take them off my hands that can provide them a good home. Have u forgetten im the one spending my time doing what ever I can to provide these little creatures the best home possible? jeez

seriously man. Try to refrain yourself from calling others disturbing

@Kaiser
I am not set on the idea of having 2. I could give mine up and just get 1 for my little brother. Knowing him, he will not share nor allow me to have anything to do with it :(
Sadly, my parents would rather take advice from the people at the pet store instead of listening to me.

It was the same situation last year when they were in the market for a new computer. I kept telling them I could build them a custom computer for a lower cost but they still ordered a crappy one from the same tech-repairman who said we needed a new computer. Only when I showed them proof that I could build the same computer hes odering for 200$ less+no tax(newegg) did they cancel they're order. I dont they figured out the moral of the story. So to fix this, Ill just show them the website you linked to me. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=154908
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
Sorry WoolyMarmot, but this is topic that seems to get people relatively heated up. It's a touchy subject, especially when we (including BotanicalStig, I'm sure) are just looking out for these animals and have devoted a lot of time, care, and research into them, only to have seen and heard of a number of incidences where individuals were too stubborn or misguided to realize the consequences until they were too late. To us, it's just very hard to understand that someone would risk another creature's general well-being and potentially their entire life, so the subject usually becomes a hot matter. We are just concerned about the animals, and it's difficult for us to know that we are unable to do anything other than write what we can to hopefully convince others otherwise.

And I'm sorry to hear about your current situation. I know that you must really want one, and that it must seem unfair if your brother gets one and doesn't let you have a part in its care-taking. But I think this is one of those situations where you have to make a mature and responsible decision: would you rather have two bearded dragons that may be miserable and constantly in harm's way just so that you could have one for yourself, or would you rather give one bearded dragon a chance at being completely safe and happy even if you couldn't be a part of it life? And who knows? Your brother may be willing to share, or he may get bored of taking care of the bearded dragon after the first few days of interest (not saying he's like this, but some kids are really just interested for a bit, until they realize it takes hard work to care for them) and maybe you could take over later. I know it's hard to pass up the opportunity, but wouldn't you much rather get a bearded dragon when you are sure you can provide for it as best as possible, meaning it's separated and with its own, wide open enclosure? It might have to be a sacrifice you'll have to consider.

As for the whole issue about your parents not listening to you, that is really unfortunate. You sound like you know what you are doing and you definitely have shown you are willing to research and try to do what's best. If it helps to convince them to listen to you rather than the pet store owner, ask them to consider doing some research here first (and I'm glad you will show them the thread I have provided), as most, if not all, of us on this site take care of or have taken care of a bearded dragon and/or other reptile in our lives, and do so for the sake of the animal and for companionship. I'm not saying that all pet store owners or employees are like this, but have your parents consider whether they really want to be listening to a pet store owner or employee who is caring for the animal for the sake of selling it; some pet store owners or employees will even tell misinformed customers that it is okay to house two or more of them together (even when they know it is not okay), because they want you to buy more of them. We have nothing really to gain from telling you to get only one bearded dragon (or at least separate them); a pet store owner has everything to gain to tell you otherwise, even if it's not in the best interest of the animal. Again, what I am saying is more for your parents than for you.

There are all kinds of instances of misinformed, misguided, or even purposely corrupt pet store owners and employees (unfortunately) who will try to sell you products that have been tested and tried again and again only to be found to be harmful to the pets that they are trying to sell to you (e.g., loose substrates such as sand, crushed walnuts, etc.; cheap, poorly-made, or incorrect UVB lights that have been known to cause eye damage or even blindness to certain animals; foods that cannot be easily digested by certain animals; etc.). Again, by no means are all pet store owners or employees like this, or mean to be like this (some of them are genuinely not taught the proper care), and I am sure that there are cases where the pet store owner and employees generally care about the animals well-being before selling them to customers. But again, have your parents consider whether or not they want to be listening to a site with hundreds and hundreds of caretakers with years of actual experience all congregated to learn and teach one another, or from a small group of pet store employees who want to sell away the animal and really probably don't have to worry about whatever happens to it after it's been sold?

And the most compelling argument? Aren't these the same pet store employees who sold your father the two Chinese water dragons without telling him it was wrong to house two of them together; didn't know the animals' genders; allowed the two to fight; and sold your father the enclosure even though it was much, much too small for them? After that, why would he be so intent on believing them this time around?

Anyway, sorry about the long post. Again, it's a pretty heated topic around here. Glad you have the common sense to at least do research and try to convince your parents to do what's responsible. I only hope that things turn out well and that you are able to convince your parents to either only get one (and if this is the case, I hope that you are mature and responsible enough to make the sacrifice just this once) or to get two separate enclosures for two separated bearded dragons.

Please update us with your situation, if you are willing to share it with us. If you do decide to get one bearded dragon, or two separated bearded dragons, we would be more than happy to help you set-up the proper enclosures for them. Good luck.
 

Esther19

BD.org Addict
Hi and welcome to the forum!

Sadly, most pet store employees are not very knowledgeable about their animals. That is why forums like this originated. For the most part, the folks here are very knowledgeable about beardies; through research, but mostly from having beardies in their homes for many years.

It is very difficult to determine the gender of a baby beardie. Many of us have thought we had one, and it turned out to be the other. I would guess that about 6 months would be the earliest.

Please understand that we get reports of severely injured beardies, who often then pass, as a result of cohabitation. Best case scenario, one would be dominant-taking the best share of the food, often laying on top of the other for the basking warmth and UVB rays. The other would fail to thrive, or even grow. They can appear to get along for some time, then all of a sudden there is an injury, or worse.

Petco is having their dollar-a-gallon sale on aquariums through the 21st. A 40 g breeder for $40. Tanks can also be found on Craigslist. An under-the-counter fixture can be found at Wal-Mart for around $11to hold the tube bulb. It might be possible, especially if you and/or your brother have any savings to contribute, that you might actually be able to separately house 2 beardies.

With the set-up you have, you are going to need different lighting. Here is a link that one of our members made:http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=167225
It is extremely important to have the right lighting. You will need a tube shaped Reptisun 10. (Not a 5)
Other bulbs make beardies sick or harm their eyes. Is there any way your dad could return that habitat? It sounds like it was very expensive!

Here is a guide for feeding: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

Please invite your parents to join us here on the forum. They are welcome to ask any questions they have, and we will do our best to help.
Esther
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
Esther19":1hjt7n21 said:
Hi and welcome to the forum!

Sadly, most pet store employees are not very knowledgeable about their animals. That is why forums like this originated. For the most part, the folks here are very knowledgeable about beardies; through research, but mostly from having beardies in their homes for many years.

It is very difficult to determine the gender of a baby beardie. Many of us have thought we had one, and it turned out to be the other. I would guess that about 6 months would be the earliest.

Please understand that we get reports of severely injured beardies, who often then pass, as a result of cohabitation. Best case scenario, one would be dominant-taking the best share of the food, often laying on top of the other for the basking warmth and UVB rays. The other would fail to thrive, or even grow. They can appear to get along for some time, then all of a sudden there is an injury, or worse.

Petco is having their dollar-a-gallon sale on aquariums through the 21st. A 40 g breeder for $40. Tanks can also be found on Craigslist. An under-the-counter fixture can be found at Wal-Mart for around $11to hold the tube bulb. It might be possible, especially if you and/or your brother have any savings to contribute, that you might actually be able to separately house 2 beardies.

With the set-up you have, you are going to need different lighting. Here is a link that one of our members made:http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=167225
It is extremely important to have the right lighting. You will need a tube shaped Reptisun 10. (Not a 5)
Other bulbs make beardies sick or harm their eyes. Is there any way your dad could return that habitat? It sounds like it was very expensive!

Here is a guide for feeding: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

Please invite your parents to join us here on the forum. They are welcome to ask any questions they have, and we will do our best to help.
Esther
I like and approve of this post! :]
 
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