Repticon Question - Houston 3/17 & 18

[onyxius]

Hello Everyone,
I have been lurking on the forums on and off for a little while now. I have never owned a bearded dragon and have been doing research on them a lot. I have decided not to purchase a beardy from say pets mart due to stories of how they treat their live stock and how you are more likely to get a sick one than from an actual breeder, which brings me to my question. I was informed about a breeder I believe who is called "Dragon Cages" who may be there, and was wondering if anyone has heard of them? I live in the north west part of Houston and am trying to locate local breeders so I can go visit them, get some additional info and so on.

Another reason for this is because I won't be going to repticon to buy 2 beardies yet as i'm just taking the wife and 13 year old daughter to look around as we have never been to one and I think it would be an awesome experience. I am going to be building a 2 layer stacked enclosure to keep both females separate since I read that they will get along until they get older, then 1 will dominate the other which will then start causing issues with the less dominant dragon. So I figured i will just keep them separate in their own big enclosures from the start. This will give me time for the October repitcon at which point we can save up some more money, build the enclosures and get things setup and ready for them since I read that regular glass tanks don't have as much air flow and unless you put in an inside basking light, they wont get but 50% of the uv they need if it goes through the mesh top, so i'm trying to make a list of things that are a must like the type of lights, size of feeder and so on.

So, the whole point on the breeder was because I just read a thread about being careful buying from places like repticon because there are non actual breeders there that may be just trying to get rid of a few dragons for whatever reason and they may be too young, or sick, or anything else not good, but to buy from a real breeder, so i'm trying to do some research to find out what "Real Breeders" are around the area that may be attending the repticon.

Thank you for reading all of this, sorry if its so long, just a new dad and his daughter getting into the life of bearded dragons I have been reading so many contradictory things on the interwebs, its crazy and trying to find out how to really take care of your dragon, and the best way to make a stacked 2 tank enclosure for them with proper airflow such as having vents on both sides and 1 in back and lighting setup is a lot as well.

Thanks
Dave

 

[kyleena29]

Yes I would probably find a reputable breeder that maybe even hopefully have tested theirs for Adenovirus. Hopefully someone on here can suggest since I'm not help on that. To make a long story short I found out someone was gathering beardies from anywhere, craigslist etc. to sell at an upcoming reptile show. So you can never be too sure where they are coming from.

I can suggest other things for you though. I built a few enclosures that are stackable. The only thing I would change is putting the airvents on the top of one side and the lower area on the other side. I can't say I would bother with the back if you're going to have it up against a wall anyway.

Here is a list of places I have ordered from:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-desert-12-uvb/arcadia-d3-12-uvb-t5-bulb-34/
http://www.urbangardensupply.net/fluorescent-lighting/sunblaster-nanotech-t5-ho-31-3-ft-1-lamp-w-nanotech-reflector/

http://www.bug-de-lite.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=Medications

http://beautifuldragons.com/ (Look at the nutrition content tab also for good reference)

http://www.beardeddragon.co/

How I set up my lights. The uvb pictured is old and is now a sunblaster that is set behind the basking
bulb instead of in front of it. The fixture shown I moved away and is used for additional lighting instead.

Stacked enclosures

You may even want to start your own dubia roach colony. I do have a few sites I have ordered feeders from if you need as well.

 

[onyxius]

Thank you for that Info. I think i have the cage setup figured out now and have been keeping notes on do's and don'ts which i'm pretty comfortable with. I think the biggest question i have now is the food. I want to keep it as simple as possible and I will be making a schedule so my 13 year old daughter can assist me in keeping things on schedule. I work from home and she goes to school online (public school) so we are here all day.

Instead of roaches, it seems more people are feeding their dragons Phoenix worms and greens, but i'm reading mixed information on how young to start giving them worms vs that it is actually the length. if the roaches are better, then i may want to have my own farm for the sake of saving money and be able to have them at hand more often. So basically i'm needing to schedule out what to feed them at what times while they are this age/length to this age/length, then once they hit this age/length start feeding them this and that, I hope that makes sense.

Something else i'm curious about, i see generally 25 dubia roaches go for 6 dollars. I see people saying their beardies eat anywhere from 10 to 50 roaches a day?? thats a lot of food. Thats basically spending 12 dollars a day on roaches alone which is 360 dollars a month just on roaches, not including veggies, but the veggies are not that bad. Does this sound right? I'm pricing based on roachking.com They do offer a mini roachking colony, but not sure that would work for 2 dragons.
https://www.roachking.com/product/mini-roach-king-colony/

You may even want to start your own dubia roach colony. I do have a few sites I have ordered feeders from if you need as well.

Yes please, as i think this may be what i need to do or at least keep it as an option for the sake of saving money.
Thanks
Dave

 

[kyleena29]

Up to around 8 months old you can do bugs 3x a day since you are always home, this can be done 2x day too. Make sure you are lightly dusting calcium 5x week and vitamins 2x week. Always have a daily salad in there too. Then you can start switching to 2x daily to about 1.5 years old. Eventually they should start eating more salad than live food. At around 2 yrs they should have bugs about 2x week and the rest daily salads. You will eventually cut down on calcium to 2-3x week and vitamins 1x week by then.

If you have space for a Rubbermaid or sterlite type of bin and are not squeamish about having roaches then you might want to start a colony. They hardly need taking care of, clean the bin every few months and throw food in a couple times a week is about all I do. You can keep a shoebox size container to put the ones you will be feeding so you can gutload them and so that you aren't always digging around in the main colony. When you start out you might want to keep them warm, like 85F to get them going. I've had mine a few years and have more than I will ever need but I never bothered with additional heat.

It is always a good idea to feed a variety of insects.

This is the best place I've gotten bsfl from: https://symtonbsf.com/products/large-feeding-grade-grubs

Hornworms and superworms: http://www.rainbowmealworms.net/

I've bought dubias from here with good results: https://store.kfcfeeders.com/products

 

[kyleena29]

Something else I didn't cover in your post. As far as bsfl (phoenix worms) you can feed them at any size and age. They are small enough already. I would buy the large ones. They are probably the best to start out with. You can get the small dubia roaches. I'm sure you know the rule of the space between the eyes. I probably would stick with bsfl, roaches, crickets, silkworms if you can, while they are small. Once they are, I think 17" long, they can have superworms as treats. You can also offer hornworms once in a while.

 

[VenusAndSaturn]

Regarding superworms it doesn't matter about length as some beardies can be five years old but only be 12" as they weren't cared for properly, age is what really matters with feeders. A beardie below a year old (12 months) shouldn't be getting superworms at all, while beardies at or above a year or 12 months can have them occasionally as treats.

Beardies often can reach 17 inches at around 6 or 7 months of age. Some are faster growers while others are a tad slower. Though how fast they grow depends on how they are cared for for the most part.

This is a feeding guide I've created to help new owners (and sometimes myself) with feeding.
All life stages eat 10-20 bugs a feeding.
1-4 months 3x a day.
4-12 months 2x a day.
12-20 months once a day.
20+ months twice a week at the least, every other day at the most.

Staple feeders - Crickets, locusts, grasshoppers, silkworms, black soldier fly larvae, dubia roaches, turkish roaches, possibly earthworms.

Treat feeders - Waxworms, hornworms, superworms, mealworms, butterworms.
Wax worms - once a week, 4-5 max.
Hornworms - every other day to every two days, 4-6 max.
Mealworms - every other day to every two days, 5-10 max. Only for beardies above 6 months.
Superworms - once or twice a week, 3-4 max. Only for beardies above 12 months.
Butterworms - once or twice a week, 3-4 max.

Daily greens- Turnip/collard/mustard greens, endive, and kale if added to a mixture of the other staple greens mentioned.
Fruit once or twice a week - Banana, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, red raspberries.
For more food items -
http://www.thebeardeddragon.org/bearded ... ta.php#veg
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

You should have two supplements at the very least, a calcium without D3 and Multivitamin.

For beardies less than 2 years old - 5x a week for calcium, 2x a week for Multivitamins.
For beardies at or more than 2 years - 1-4x a week for calcium, 1-2x a week for multivitamins.

This is for regular healthy beardies, depending on health state it may need more calcium or less calcium.

Dust at least one insect meal when dusting, lightly dust. For beardies more than two years old on non insect days you can dust the salad.

I also have a small setup guide,
Enclosure size for baby less than 6 months - 20 gallon.
Enclosure size for 6-12 months - 40 or 50 gallon.
Enclosure size for 12+ months or right when you get it - 75 gallons (48"x18"x20") or 120 gallon (4x2x2).

UVB lighting - Reptisun T5 HO 10.0 UVB Tube Light with a fitting reflective fixture.
20-50 gallons 22" or 34", 75+ gallons 34" or 46".
Replace every 6-12 months.
This should sit right over the basking spot, either behind the basking light or in front.
Basking bulb - Bright white light, either regular reptile bulb or a halogen bulb. Wattage depends on temps inside house and tank height.
You can also go with Powersun, Arcadia or Megaray MVB's for heat. These produce both UVB and heat but you'll still need a UVB tube light beside it.

Temperatures -
Basking temp 100-110, no less no more. Prefered is 105.
Warm side temps (areas around the direct basking spot) 88-95.
Cool side temps 70-85 and no more.
Night time temps 65-85 and no more.
If it goes below 65 you need a Ceramic heat emitter or a CHE. This produces no light so it wont disturb your reptiles sleep as they can see most colors that we can if not more.

Substrate - Paper towels, tile, possibly newspaper, non adhesive shelf liner, AstroTurf possibly or repti-carpet.

Do not use particle substrates, they will cause impaction, prolapses (this can cost 1,000 dollars to fix), stained scales, joint issues, bacterial infections, fungal infections, mold possibly, high humidity, eye infections and much more.

Just the basics, so not too full into depth about the care.

 

[onyxius]

WOW, thank you guys, so much great information. As far as mealworms go, I think I will skip that because of how many places I have read from say that the shell on the worm can cause issues clogging up the dragon.

I live in Houston which its typically hot out, and upstairs where we spend most of our time and where the enclosures will be its usually 70 to 78 degrees depending on how hot it is outside, so with that and the heat lamp, I think ill have more of an issue with it being too hot than not hot enough.

Thank you again for all of this info, we greatly appreciate it.