Potential rescue

[Nasubi77]

It started with this ad on CL:
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pet/1069583504.html

I just couldn't help but to send this person a message. You never know what kind of attitude someone will have when approached like this, if they will receive it well, or be antagonistic. I sent this email:

Hello,

First of all, please hear me out. I'm not trying to attack you or judge you. All I want is what is best for all creatures, great and small.

My heart sank when I clicked on your ad and saw your beardie. I can tell just by those 2 pics that he is very unhealthy! I don't and won't blame you for this. If you got him from a pet store, you were most likely given some wrong information on how to take care of him. I'm sure you did the best according to what you were told, but unfortunately, pet stores are notorious for their outdated and DANGEROUS information on beardie care. Too many beardies are left to suffer because of this, and it's very sad...

Just on visual inspection, I can tell that he is severely malnourished as he is EXTREMELY skinny! The fat pads on his head and tail should be very plump, but they are sunken in. This is also a sign of dehydration. Does he actually drink water from a bowl? Because most beardies won't. It's best to hydrate them through a bath every few days. Misting is not enough.

Also, he seems to have beginning signs of MBD, Metabolic Bone Disease, which happens when beardies lack sufficient calcium and UVB. Do you give him vitamin/calcium supplements? Do you have a good quality UVB on him? Your ad mentions he comes with a fluorescent light, but all brands are not created equal. Also, fluorescent UVB's lose effectiveness after about 6 months. Is your UVB older than 6 months? If so, he is not getting the UVB he needs, thus causing the MBD. MBD can be halted, although not reversed, with critical care, and I highly suggest critical care for this dragon!

Does he have an appetite? How many bugs does he eat a week? Does he have access to fresh salad consisting of dark leafy greens, like collards or mustards and other healthy veggies every day? Carrots, broccoli, canned veggies, lettuce, cabbage are all NOT healthy for your dragon.

Does he poop regularly? I notice you have some kind of sand as a substrate. If it's calcium sand or repti-sand, it is actually very dangerous for your dragon and can cause a major impaction and death. Also, I don't see any sign of a thermometer? How do you measure his temps? Correct basking/cooling temps are essential for his health and digestion as well.

Look, I bring up these issues, because I am certain that you have not been properly educated on how to properly care for these beautiful creatures. I'm not coming down on you at all, as I blame the pet stores! I'm sure you are not even aware of the importance of these issues in diet/temps/UVB etc.

$150 is a LOT to ask for a VERY sick dragon, with a cage that is WAY too small. I'm not out to get a new pet, so I'm not trying to get you to GIVE me this animal.... BUT this animal does need emergency care, and I am equipped to provide that care. I'm not looking for a new pet, but when I see an animal in need, I have to reach out.

You should consider relinquishing this dragon to someone who can bring him back to health, or a local reptile rescue. Not sure about the Rescue situations in Charlotte, but I would be happy to look into it and see if I could find one. If you need money, keep all the equipment and sell it. But please give this poor dragon to someone who can give him the attention he needs. Otherwise, I'm afraid, his time is quickly running out.

I say all of this in the best interest of the animal. I sincerely hope you can understand that, and not take a defensive posture. I know it's hard not to get defensive and upset when you're told "you're doing it all wrong" but like I said, I don't blame you at all, I blame the pet store.

I offer to take him off your hands to get him back to health. If you don't accept my offer, please find someone else who has knowledge about these animals who can nurse him back to health. Please don't make this a money-making venture...no price can be put on an animal's life.

In all Sincerity,

Susan

I surprisingly got a positive response:

Hi Susan,

I appreciate your reply and am not offended by your remarks. I have gotten all of my care information from the pet store and have thought for a while now that the info. they gave me was not sufficient enough to maintain the beardy's health. I was not aware that it's health was as bad as you mention but I do believe you as you seem to know a lot about these creatures. I would not have listed it for $150 if I knew it was in such poor health. I have one person intristed in the lizard and I will share the knowledge you have shared with them. If they are still willing to take her, I will let them have her. If not, I would not mind giving her to you if you can care for her.

Thanks for the response. I feel bad for being so ignorant and not realizing she is in such poor health. I have very little time to care for her and have not devoted enough attention. I would blame myself as well as misleading information from the pet store. I followed their lead and obviously they were wrong.

Any suggestions on how to get her healthy for the time being? I will keep you posted on the situation and once again, thanks for letting me know she was in sucj poor health. I truely had no idea.

Thanks,
Justin

So, the advice I have given him for the immediate present, is to bathe her daily, and gave directions on starting a critical care program by suggesting he cut out any live bugs, give her babyfood w/calcium, or a slurry w/ greens/calcium/repti-aid. To get a new UVB (which he probably won't since he's about to give her away). I don't know what her diet or appetite has been so far, but just by looking I can only assume that she needs the critical care! Also advised him on steps to take for impaction. Don't know her BM history either, but I can't imagine she poops much! Seems like there's nothing going through the digestive system to poop out!

Anyway, sounds like she may end up in my hands. Hopefully this will transpire within a couple days (his location is 70 miles away from me so it will take some planning to get her).

I've never nursed a sick beardie back to health, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I meant, I have thoroughly read these message boards, including the ER section for over a year, so even though I have no direct experience, I have an idea as to what I can expect, and more important, I know where I can go if I need help!!

Any other immediate advice I can give him to start her recovery?

Thanks!


Susan

 

[Ethelia]

Woah, I was blown away by the maturity of the owners responce.

I do really hope the buyer falls through and you get the chance to bring this little guy back to health.

Firstly this poor little guy obviously needs UVB and needs it fast.
An MVB bulb would do wonders for this guy, but if you dont have one on hand Im sure he will manage with a strip flourescent for now.

I would be really careful when it comes to protien.
By the looks of it this guy has been offered live food maybe twice a week. Im doubtful if he ever really eats it. Its SO tempting to just let this little guy eat as much as he can, but starvation can lead to a sluggish digestive system which you do not want to overload with protien.
I would offer salad first, see if just out of hunger he will take it (he may be resistant if he is unused to veg), then I would feed him two or three soft bodied worms (pheonix/butter/silk/horn worms) to see how his system handles it. Check his poop (delightful eh?)
Whilst you are weening him back onto live food I would suppliment his diet with a babyfood slurry.
Chicken/turkey and squash/vegitable is a great base. To this you can mix in vits and calcium.
Slurry wise you can dab on his nose, put ontop of his veg, or syringe into his mouth if he refuses to take it.

Try as much squash as you can in your veg, it is lovely and starchy and helps promote weight gain, I had great results with skinny skinny Ruben when I brought him home.

Its also important to keep an eye on his poop for impaction. If this little guy was starving I wouldnt be suprised if he hadnt licked around his sand to see if there was any remaining food scraps.
If you have him for a couple of days and there is no poop you can induce one with 2 drops of olive oil and/or some unsweetened applesauce.

You also need to put him on a daily bathing scedual. He looks SO dehydrated. It will also help encorage him to poop.


I only take in rescues, and they can be alot of work and alot of worry, but I have never looked back and I never will.

I really hope you get this boy.
Holly

 

[Nasubi77]

Holly,

Everything you just said is practically exactly what I told this person to do immediately i.e. babyfood/slurries, no bug protein, daily baths, new UVB, steps to care for impaction. And this is the course of action I will take if/when I get her.

Thanks!

 

[Ethelia]

I appologise ^_^

 

[GoFast]

good luck!! I do feel good that the current owner was so receiving!

 

[Jiffy]

Wow, you did a great job typing your reply so that they would not be offended, and would listen to what you say.

I am very surprised and glad of the owners response. Please keep us updated, and hopefully you can get this beardie and nurse her back to health!

 

[Nasubi77]

Wow, you did a great job typing your reply so that they would not be offended, and would listen to what you say.

Thanks. Hubby calls me "The Diplomat". 8) Haven't heard back from this person today, but yesterday he didn't email me until late in the afternoon. I don't check my email on weekends, so I'll email him my phone number before I leave work today. I don't want to wait, even a few days, because I'm afraid a few days is all this poor dragon has.
I have seen dragons is much worse shape being nursed back to health on this board, so that gives me hope. But still, I worry about her. How can I become so emotionally involved with a skinny pile of scales that I've never even met???

 

[midnight_962002]

Hi,

Well first things firts. If you do end up with this dragon you need to quarantine him from Amber. Rescues need to be a deeper sort of quarantine. Meaning, they have no direct or indirect contact at all with an other dragon. If she hangs on your clothes, you change them before you go near Amber.

Secondly, you are going to want to get a fresh fecal to the vet for analysis. Along with adjustments in the cage, diet, lighting, temps, etc. Everything we talked about when you were getting Amber. Caring for a rescue is a little bit more difficult that caring for a baby. It can also be even more stressful that getting your first dragon. But, you did wonderful and I hope this one ends up in your hands.

I would try emailing him pics of what your dragon looks like so he can compare a healthy looking dragon with good fat pads to his. Try to include the base of the tail, head, and legs.

Good Luck

Ernie

 

[Nasubi77]

Hi,

Well first things first. If you do end up with this dragon you need to quarantine him from Amber. Rescues need to be a deeper sort of quarantine. Meaning, they have no direct or indirect contact at all with an other dragon. If she hangs on your clothes, you change them before you go near Amber.

Secondly, you are going to want to get a fresh fecal to the vet for analysis. Along with adjustments in the cage, diet, lighting, temps, etc. Everything we talked about when you were getting Amber. Caring for a rescue is a little bit more difficult that caring for a baby. It can also be even more stressful that getting your first dragon. But, you did wonderful and I hope this one ends up in your hands.

I would try emailing him pics of what your dragon looks like so he can compare a healthy looking dragon with good fat pads to his. Try to include the base of the tail, head, and legs.

Good Luck

Ernie

Ernie, nice to see you again!

Yes, I was aware of the need of a quarantine. I might not have thought about the contact through my clothing! But now, I know to have a special shirt/clothing to handle the sick one. I am prepared for the stress and difficulty involved in nursing a sick animal. Like I said, I have faithfully read this board (all sections!) almost daily for well over a year, so I have read the stories about other rescues, the good, the bad and the ugly. I'm purdy smart and catch on quickly, so even with lack of experience, I believe I have the education and knowledge to do a good job on this poor little gal/guy (He refers to it as "her" but I don't know if he actually knows for sure.) And yes, I am prepared to get a fecal to the vet ASAP.

I have the equipment I need to provide a well-suited enclosure. I do NOT have an extra UVB, and wasn't planning on ordering one until I know for sure I will get this dragon. Amber is under a 100W MegaRay (about 6 months old). I figured she is healthy enough that a few days without the UVB won't be detrimental to her, so I will put the sick baby under the Megaray and order a new one ASAP for Amber. I will also have to order some soft bodied worms, as Amber eats Supers. But I plan on feeding just babyfood at first anyway, so I'll have some time to get the appropriate worms.

I did shoot him a few pics of Amber, pointing out her head, base of her tail and legs, and buddha belly!

Thanks for the advice! I'll be offline for the weekend, but I'll certainly let you all know the status of this situation on Monday!

 

[Nasubi77]

Sorry I'm a slacker on updating this!
I sent him an email before I left for the weekend, saying that he could call me if he needed any further advice or if he wanted to set up a pickup time. And that I felt time was of the essence.

But I didn't hear from him. I figured he got someone to actually buy this dragon so I was just hoping that whomever got her, realized that she needed special care and would provide it for her. I was actually quite depressed about it, worrying about her.

But just today (my birthday, btw) I arrive at work to find an email from him saying that the sell fell through and would I take her?

My son has ball practice tonight so I plan to go get her tomorrow night. She's a couple hour drive from me, so it will be a long day. Anyway, now that there is something to report, I will keep you updated!

 

[Nasubi77]

It turns out that we won't be able to meet up during the week, so it will be Saturday before I get her. That means two weeks from the time I first learned about her. I hope that wait won't be too detrimental to her health at this point. I've given him some basic instructions, but it seems he is a full time student and also has a full time job so who knows if he will actually do any of it. I've asked him at least a couple times about her eating and pooping habits and he has yet to answer, so it's hard to gauge just how dire her situation is, other than just by the pics. But the pics do tell a very loud story and waiting a few extra days really worries me.

Anyway, I'll post an update when there's something to update! At least now I'll have time to get a new UVB in hand before she gets here.

 

[midnight_962002]

Hopefully, she can put up with the extra week or so of his care. If he did a little of what you said it could be a big help for her. These guys recover quickly. But, when they show signs of being sick it is usually really late into the problems.

Good Luck

Ernie

 

[Nasubi77]

Well, he finally answered my questions, and she seems pretty perky considering her situation.

Saturday will be fine. Her appetite has been good. I have been feeding her carrots and kale with a few crickets. I do not measure her temps. Her bowel movements seem normal as well. She poops probably once every two days. Her feces is shiney and rather dark with the white part you speak of. I have not been giving her a bath but will put the bowl in as you described. She is pretty active. Always alert when someone enters the room. She has never laid eggs and I don't know for sure that she is female. I assumed it because I didn't know. I got her at PetSmart a year and a half ago and I believe she was 6 weeks then. I am unfimiliar with arm wave, head bob, or black bearding. She did not brumate this winter and her name is Margaret. Let me know if I didn't address any of your questions.

I realize that kale and carrots are both high in vit A so I will advise him to lay off the carrots. I would tell him to get some collards and squash, but I doubt he would, esp since he knows she'll be out of his hands in a few days. At least it wasn't lettuce!

About the bowl comment....I knew he wouldn't take the time to bathe her, so I suggested he put in a water dish big enough for her to get into, IF she was strong enough to hold herself up well. She's holding herself up pretty good in the CL pics, so I didn't think this would be a problem. I also stressed that he should change this water every day.

I guess now we just wait for Saturday. . .

 

[Nasubi77]

Just a quick update:

I emailed him Friday to give him my number so we could arrange the details for when and where to meet on Saturday. This dragon is about 70+ miles from me, so I planned my whole day around driving to Charlotte. Well, he never called. I didn't know what happened...thought maybe he changed him mind at the last second, or maybe the poor thing died...or he just flaked out.

Anyway, he finally emailed me on Sunday apologizing about the university's email going down and he didn't get my message to call him. Sooooo, now the plan is that we're meeting tomorrow (Wednesday). Making that long trip during the week (I work full time and have 2 kids active in sports) is a hassle, but I don't want to let that poor little lizard wait any longer than I have to!

In the meantime, check out this deal I found on a Craigslist ad:

I got a 40 gallon breeder, a screen top, 1 fluorescent fixture that fits the 40g, another fluorescent fixture that looks like it fits a 10 gallon, a ceramic clamp light fixture, 3 heat pads, about 5 or 6 feeding dishes, a big "bath" type water bowl (was used for a tortoise), plus about 5 or 6 logs and climbing furnitures and hides, all for $60. A lot of it I won't be able to use, but I can horde it for any future reptiles, or I could sell it if I needed to. I've got a bad case of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) so I doubt I'll sell it! lol

So, here's to a successful venture tomorrow. . .

 

[Nasubi77]

Well, I have spoken to this kid on the phone a couple times and we have a specific time and place to meet so it looks like a go. I have a tank all set up, including a brand new Megaray. He's meeting me about 30 miles this side of Charlotte, so that will shave an hour or more off my transit time. It's still a 70+ mile drive from the town where I work to the town where we're meeting. But it will only be about a 40 mile trip home after that. I had a rice sock ready to go and went off and left it but I'm cold natured anyway so we'll ride home with the heat blasting!

I'll post pics and an update tomorrow!