possibly MBD in a month??

[Buggsy]

Hello all, as some of you may know ive been having troubles getting Gizmo, my 3yr old female, to eat. She came out of brumination, spent 2 weeks tearing the place up jumping on everything, then a few weeks of moody/ still not eating, but still showing happy colours. Well she 'woke up' again this week and has been running around all ove the place. I noticed she couldnt jump up onto the couch anymore, but didnt think too much of it. Well yesterday for the first time i notice one of her back feet, its like she dosnt feel it, it will bend under and she dosnt correct it. Its still alive and plyable, and she has not problem with me touching it.

I was just very aware because she hasnt been eating, she hasnt gotten calcium in quite a while, could this be an early sign of MBD??

Some info: I use the arcada 12% UVB, which was 5 months old, so went and bought a brand new one yesterday. She was getting calypso calcium, but nothing for a while, i tried rubbing it on her lips but she just leaves it there. Yesterday i mixed it with some water to make a slurry and she had 1ml of it.

The vet is closed but ill be making an app this week for an xray/blood work. I feel so mad with myself, i love her to BITS she is my baby! how did i let it get this far? Could it be some damage from running/jumping?? Its all soo confusing and her not eating really isnt helping! Ive managed to get her in the sun for 20 min yesterday and today but here in England its not that nice!

How old is your dragon? 3yrs
How long have you had your dragon? since 8 weeks
How long is your dragon? 21"
What is the sex of your dragon?[Female
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 90 gallon
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?tile
Do you use UVB lights? yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Arcadia 12%
How old is your UVB bulb? was 5 months, now new
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 6-7"
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? 40w
What are the basking temps? 98-104
What is the cool side temp? 73-75
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? temp gun
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? various places on her basking platform, she moves around it during the day.
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? no
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. when she was eating, butters, supers and locust (smaller than the space between her eyes)
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? Morning after trying veggies, or 4pm when i got home
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? have to - she really wont touch veggie - i keep trying though!Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? again when she was eating, calypso 3 times a week, nutrobal 2-3 times
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? was every other day
Do you bath your dragon? How often? every other day
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? no
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? before brumination, fecal all clear

Please help, anyone??

 

[Buggsy]

Bump?? any ideas/info??

 

[Grimleo]

Wow, to me it sounds like you are doing everything right. Maybe she is still just recovering from brumation? I am not an expert or too experienced with this so I could be wrong.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, yes it could be early hypocalcemia so taking proactive measures now should quickly reverse it since there are no physical deformities.
Good that you already ordered a new Arcadia D3 12% that should help a lot. Since she went through brumation, & didn't get much of any calcium then, & now isn't getting any then that most likely has just caught up with her.
Do you think that she got injured? That is a possibility though, just strained something but it does sound more like calcium issues to me.

Tracie

 

[Buggsy]

My other half though she had hurt something with all the running around, but my gut says she needs calcium!

A shop here in Leeds sells them so it was fully replaced on sat, its not happening so much now, but shes at the vets tomorrow for tests, im not sure what he will want to do first but hes a very good vet and always honest with me (gizmo likes him too, always shows happy colours for him!)

Thanks Tracey, i think i was just really shocked and worried, but well see!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, your gut is probably right then. I would do what you can to get some liquid calcium. I think Bone Aid might be sold in the UK or Vetark brand has some liquid calcium I think.
How is she doing today?
It is not your fault, these things happen. Sometimes, they just need extra calcium from time to time. Has she ever laid any infertile eggs before?

Tracie

 

[Buggsy]

Yes this time last year she absorbed one clutch and layed poosibly the smallest clutch ever of 2 eggs!

She is seeing the vet at 2pm today, so well see what he says!

She ok, still no interest in food at all and shes lertn my trick with the calcium mix so now wont take fluids from the dropper! Her fat pads are fine and she hasnt lost weight dispite not eating more than 3 worms a week for two months! She saw the 'vet box' so shes in a mood with me atm, ill keep you posted!

 

[Buggsy]

Ok so an interesting update, the vet dosnt seem to think its calcium related, he knows my set up and as its only effecting one foot with not other signs hes not convinced its systems. He says hes seen it in cats and dogs, cant remember the name begins with P, where they can sense where the limb is.

He thinks it may be swelling or nerve damage either from the spine or the upper leg, but was confused when she didnt show any signs of pain and he could manipulate it without the bat of an eyelid. He wants me to keep a close eye on it, and has treated it as if she were in slight pain (metacam 0.1ml diluted into 10ml) every other day, 0.09ml.

Gizmo was a very good girl and even gave a very small poop to take with me. (its been about a week) it looked wierd but didnt smell too bad. App it was LOADED with pinworms, larve eggs and adults. This would explain why she didnt want to eat! we were both so shocked! So she didnt like it but got 0.33ml 10% pancur suspension.

Shes now 700g, so shes gained 100 over the winter, he could feel some lumps, but could differentiate between bowel or the beginings of a clutch, so were on the lookout.

Any way her tank has been taken aart and scrubbed/bleached/baked to get rid of any worms again, the locuts have gone (they can sometimes have a few dead one in the box so better safe than sorry).

Sorry for the long update, but it was a wierd old app! Were back a week today for a check up, he going to think about it, but dosnt think bloods will turn anything up.

 

[Livey]

Im sorry to hear Gizmo has Pin worm!
I Hope she gets better real soon!

 

[Buggsy]

Ok so after two doses of the metacam she is not dragging it as much, ive only seen it happen once in the last two days, so hopefully it is just tissue swelling that will go down. If on the other had it is perminantly damaged, is there anything i can do or will she be 'lame' for want of a better word forever?? It dosnt trouble her, she jumps around some and runs all over the house, but with more of a shuffle than a skittle now!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How would she have gotten injured?
The term he was looking for was proprioreception, just the sense of knowing where the limbs, the location & orientation.
Too bad Gizmo had pinworms but the panacur should get that taken care of in a few treatments though.
The metacam should help with pain management for awhile but should not be given long term. Hopefully she will improve quickly. Try not to let her jump off of things too much right now just so she doesn't hurt herself any further.

Tracie

 

[Buggsy]

Well shes been going nuts! no matter how much i let her out of the cage she is going nuts! I took out some furniture, but her basking spot is a platform so there not much i can do about that one! Im hoping she calms down soon as i think whatever it was may just get worse if she dosnt rest it.

That was the word! i just couldn't remember what he had said!

Ive got all w/end off so ill be keeping a close eye on either, and were back again on Tue so ill keep you updated!

Just a ? about the pancur, she hasn't been pooping, at all really, so can the vet get a sample 'manually' to see if another dose is needed? I think she will as there were eggs present, but just unsure about everything. Shes absolutely fine and is running all over the place like a mad women, i thought it might be eggs, but no digging at all and by 3pm shes calmed down again!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So Gizmo has been a mad woman!
Yes, they can manually try to get a fecal sample, but it isn't very pleasant for them. If you can get any baby food into her to help have something to obtain a fecal sample, that would be a better way to do it.
Usually, they do need 2 treatments, sometimes 3, depending on the levels of the worms, etc.
It doesn't sound like she wants to rest her hand at all! Silly dragon. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[Buggsy]

Alrighty then, so i got chicken and squash baby food, diluted it down with water and added some calcium to that, and so far shes had about 3-4 ml, but because she wont sit still it involves me chasing her as shes licking it from her lips! v funny to watch im sure!

Its been glorious here in the UK over the weekend so we've spent alot of time in the garden, i was hoping some strong natural UVB would kick start her appitite again! SHe loved it and basked most of the day, here are some pics for you:

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff94/kirsty-owen/?action=view&current=stuff184.jpg

As you can see shes very happy (and plump) shes not been running so much with her foot tucked under, it corrects itself after about 3 steps now, but the scales are a little damaged, im not sure how much good the pain killers are doing!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is great Gizmo is starting to walk around a little bit better now, the extra calcium & UVB must be helping out. So, she liked being outside then? She looks so cute, & very happy basking outside today.
At least she is eating some as well, even if you do have to chase her around to get it in her mouth!
I hope she continues to improve now.

Tracie