Possible impaction or MBD

[softcastle]

Hi all,

Little baby Frank has taken a turn for the worse recently. After eating a particularly large quantity of calcium-dusted crickets for his habits on Tuesday afternoon (10 in one feeding, his usual is 3 or 4), he got deep stress marks. We came back that evening to find what looked like a scene out of a John Carpenter film-- a single mass of what looked like almost all the undigested crickets in one long, poop-shaped piece, almost as big as Frank's abdomen itself. He seemed way more happy, was on his hammock under his light, and was completely white on his beard and belly. We were a bit taken aback, as it was obviously quite the digestive issue, but he seemed alright, so we cleared it out of his tank.

Yesterday, he wouldn't eat and didn't poop, and he was given a bath, during which his beard got pretty dark (not black beard, but stressed for sure), and then he was fine back under his basking rock. Today, however, he was quivering, almost like twitching seizures, made lunges for his calcium crickets but ate none, and looked like he was dragging his body parts and almost paralyzed. Afterward, he laid on the floor of the tank, not twitching, but not holding himself up either, only his head. Still alert in his eyes and lifted his head to tilt to look at me. Naturally, I freaked out and gave him a long bath of 1:1 Pedialyte, and he took some drips of water on his nose. Wouldn't eat the baby squash and oil off of his nose. After I put him back on his basking rock, he turned white again, and climbed back up on his hammock. I suspect pain from the impaction as the cause of his behavior, however, ever since I upgraded my Reptisun 5.0 with a 10.0 last Tuesday, I have noticed that he has been trembling, almost as if with fear, nearly every time I reach my hand into his cage to get him, and only then. This makes me wonder about MBD. What should I do? Right now he's resting under his light in his hammock. Here's a rundown of my setup, and I've had him for about 7 weeks:

Feeding: He eats about 2-3 crix per feeding, 3x a day, so 6 small crix on a good day, and 1-2 BSFL left in his bowl. I leave out fresh misted collards every day, but they're barely touched. He won't container feed, since he's from Petco and is used to having prey run around his cage even when he's done. I put what he doesn't eat away after 20 mins. He loves his wax worms, which he gets twice a week, and liked Dubias which I tried a couple of times. It's almost like he gets bored of the food and just lets it run around.

Habitat: 20 gall aquarium tank with mesh lid, I have a 120 gall available if you suggest I move him right away

Lighting: 150 watt lightbulb in a Fluker's dimmer lid, ReptiSun 10.0 in the hood

Temps/Humidity: ~80 cool side, ~100-105 hot side, 35% humidity. I use two of those little digital probe thermometers, I have them suctioned on each side, one is next to his basking spot, halfway in between the lamp and the thing he sits on.

Calcium intake: dusted food 2x a week, since he eats at least one BSFL a day. Let me know if I should adjust this.

Bathing: every 3 days, and he drinks water dripped on his head during every bath.

Poops: Always well formed logs with a white urate tip, dark in color, never ever runny or super dried out. Once it was pinkish tinged in the urate, but never for more than a day. Always regular, once a day, aside from The Thing-looking poop after the crickets which only happened once.

Behavior: Always alert, loves to climb his hammock and my shirt, tilts his head to look at me when I enter the room, never dull-eyed or sleepy. He basks every morning and will then climb on his hammock or occasionally go to the cool side, but always comes back. In the past 6 weeks, he's shed his head, tail, and legs. Never trembles unless being picked up. He's very active. No bumps on his spine or limbs, all fingers/toes and eyes are healthy.

I will take any suggestions to help him. I really hope this isn't because of the poor conditions they kept him in at the pet store.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It does sound a lot like metabolic bone disease. Your Reptisun 10, it is a long tube bulb, correct?
Since he is in a 120 gallon tank, how far from the light is he? Is there screen or mesh in between him & the light, or is the light mounted underneath of the screen?
I would give calcium 4-5 days per week, since he is growing rapidly. He may not be eating enough of the phoenix worms to give enough calcium.
Were the crickets smaller than the space between his eyes to avoid impaction?
Please post a picture of his setup for us so we can make sure everything is good.
Keep him a little warmer overnight right now, around 80, to help boost his system while he isn't feeling 100%.
The baby food should help out nutrition wise. What are you using, chicken or turkey with the squash?

Tracie

 

[softcastle]

Update: Frank's health has vastly improved, but we're not out of the woods yet.

After suspecting MBD, I gave him liquid calcium drops 2x daily, and baths with calcium and pedialyte mixed in. After four days of these, the shakes and tremors were 100% gone and he is able to to walk much more normally and holds himself up on all four legs (like a little dog?) when running around. He no longer has deep stress marks, and looks so much better. Super alert, no shakes, very active.

Eating has been more of a challenge. He went through a shed of his entire head and arms, and we could tell it really stressed him out on top of the calcium issues. He wasn't eating live prey, so we gave him baby food on his nose every couple of hours, which he would always lick off. It was a slow process, but now he's finally coming round to crickets again (won't touch his calciworms or wax worms). He has eaten 3 small calcium-covered crickets over the past couple of days, and lunges at more but seems to get discouraged after a while. He closes his eyes at the prey if we try to hand feed. He also ate some of his dead skin that was on the ground, which is weird.

We are taking him to the vet tomorrow, because we can tell that he's lost weight and his eating still isn't good. Definitely a huge improvement from where we were a week ago. Thanks for your help, folks!

 

[Rankins]

Keep everyone posted on what the vet says. It does sound like it could be MBD. But sometimes over feeding or too large of insects can put pressure on spinal nerves and cause some of the symptoms your describing.
My first guess is that its early MBD...Tracie has given some great advice. Hope the vet visit goes well.

 

[AHBD]

Glad to hear that Frank has improved thanks to the good advice + vet care. And he's still pooing ?

It's very likely that his appetite is coming back slowly after his bad experience, but it should return in a short time. What you can try to get him eating more cricks is to put a few in a jar or container with a lid [ add a pinch of calcium ] and shake them enough to stun them and they are weak + slow moving. Drop those right near him....most beardies can't resist the dizzy, slow bugs and will pick them off as they wobble by. If he eats the first 3-4, repeat until he is no longer interested.

But just give it time and his appetite should return on it's own.

 

[softcastle]

So we took Frank to the vet after he started refusing to eat even baby food or water put on his nose. He would wipe it off on the carpet instead of licking it off, and just lie there. The vet took several examinations of him and a fecal, and told us that he was most likely a classic case of adenovirus from what she could see. She did a test, and we're waiting on the results, but he has most of the symptoms, especially since he is so small. He also apparently has worms and a high concentration of coccidia--also hinting towards adenovirus as well. She gave him a dewormer (Panacur) and me an omnivore Critical Care mix. He was alert and pooped in the car on the way home, but has since gone downhill. I gave him a Pedialyte bath and his two doses of the critical care today, but he's not alert at all and really seems stressed by all the goings-on of the day. Really hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, especially since the vet immediately suspected adeno.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Let us know if it is Adeno or not. It can cause a myriad of symptoms from calcium issues, high coccidia counts, respiratory problems, etc.
I am sorry he isn't wanting to eat anything right now, either.
I hope the Panacur dose wasn't too strong for him. Do you know how much he received, meaning the dose for his body weight & strength of the solution?
Do you have any bee pollen you could mix in with his critical care also? That helps boost the immune system. I would continue with the liquid calcium drops, too. What brand is it?
Where did you get Frank from, a breeder or pet store?

Tracie