Please help, I have several concerns

[bumblebee]

I have a four month old male beardie named Dante. I got him on Thursday, June 7th. His temps are 100-103 at the basking spot, and 83-85 on the cool side, measured with digital thermometer with probe. The basking bulb is a crystal clear 150 watt house bulb. He has a Repti-sun 10.0 tube. He is on paper towels, and the humidity is ranging about 38-40%. He is about 13 inches long and was 160 grams at the vet last week.

I took him to the vet on Thursday, 6/14 because he still wasn’t eating well and I suspected he had parasites. The vet did a fecal exam and said he was “full of coccidia and some pinworms.” He treated him with Panacur and another med that I can’t remember the name of. We go back on Monday 6/25 for his 2nd dose of meds. How often should I completely clean his tank? I'm using a steamer.

He also has an injury to his front right hand/claw. The vet looked at it and said there wasn’t really anything we could do because wrapping it and dealing with adhesive wouldn’t be a good idea. He said it looked like there was nerve damage, and that because he’s young, the chances of him recovering from it are 50-50. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do or not do with it? I’m trying to avoid touching it, but he uses it all the time and doesn’t seem to be in any pain (possibly due to the nerve damage?).

I think he might have mites because three different times now, I have seen red dots on his belly between his scales. I read that giving him a bath will drown them, but how long does he need to be in the water? I just gave him a bath in hopes that it would kill them, but in the 15 minutes he was in, he tried to get out 5 times (he really doesn’t like baths :roll: ). Any advice on how to get rid of the mites before they get really bad? Does using a steamer work for killing them in his tank?

I’m not very impressed with the vet. I told him he was on paper towels, and he recommended switching to sand. I asked about switching from crickets to other feeders (because I hate crickets), and he recommended switching to wax worms. He also told me that the UVB light could be outside of the tank as long as the screen didn’t have plastic on it; the box the light came in says screens can block up to 50% of the light. He recommended dusting with calcium no more than 3 times a week, and vitamins at most once a week. He also said not to bother with Bene-Bac, but everything I’ve read says probiotics can’t really hurt, especially when they’re on antibiotics. Any thoughts?

Sorry for all of the questions, and thanks in advance for any help.

Here are some pictures of him and his hand today. He's actually slightly yellower than in the pictures because the lighting wasn't great.

 

[Momswims1]

Poor little baby! His poor foot. That is so sad. He is so cute. Adorable little guy. It does really sound like your vet does not know what he is talking about. I would look for a different one. Herp vets are hard to find, for sure. I hope there is something that can be done for his foot. Mine has toes missing, but it does not hurt him.
Wish I could help you with the mites, but I have no experience with that. Keep us updated. Wish him all the best. Rub his little noggin for us.

 

[bayoupig5]

have a four month old male beardie named Dante. I got him on Thursday, June 7th. His temps are 100-103 at the basking spot, and 83-85 on the cool side, measured with digital thermometer with probe. The basking bulb is a crystal clear 150 watt house bulb. He has a Repti-sun 10.0 tube. He is on paper towels, and the humidity is ranging about 38-40%. He is about 13 inches long and was 160 grams at the vet last week.

This all sounds good to me

I took him to the vet on Thursday, 6/14 because he still wasn’t eating well and I suspected he had parasites. The vet did a fecal exam and said he was “full of coccidia and some pinworms.” He treated him with Panacur and another med that I can’t remember the name of. We go back on Monday 6/25 for his 2nd dose of meds. How often should I completely clean his tank? I'm using a steamer.

I have not had to deal with coccidia, but have heard it is very difficult to get rid of. Since he is on paper towel I would definitely change that out once a day. Steaming is good, and I have heard that you cannot over do the cleaning where coccidia is concerned, here is a link to one of the articles here on this site if you have not referenced it before, http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/parasitecare/. Also type in coccidia as a search item and there should be loads of posts on that. Meds for worms and parasites can cause trouble with the stomach. It can get rid of healthy bacteria needed for proper dragon digestion. Some people have given their dragons soy (not dairy) yogurt to help re plenish proper bacterial counts. I did this for my dragon when she was on meds and it really seem to help. You can give them this by using a syringe and placing the drops of yogurt on their nose, until they lick it up.

He also has an injury to his front right hand/claw. The vet looked at it and said there wasn’t really anything we could do because wrapping it and dealing with adhesive wouldn’t be a good idea. He said it looked like there was nerve damage, and that because he’s young, the chances of him recovering from it are 50-50. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do or not do with it? I’m trying to avoid touching it, but he uses it all the time and doesn’t seem to be in any pain (possibly due to the nerve damage?).

I have no idea what happened to the foot, but it could likely be due to litter mate nipping damage. Did this vet feel it was broken? or just nerve damage? I am not really sure how to go about taping this, but I do know that there is non adhesive tape that works well for pets, here is an example, http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MSWC/Skin-Wound-Care/BrandsDirectory/Coban/, 3m makes this one, but it is sold in generic forms too, you can just tell the pharmacist that you are looking for Coban, and they should be able to help you. Not sure how your dragon would take to this tape though, and you would not want him to eat it by ripping at it accidentally.

I think he might have mites because three different times now, I have seen red dots on his belly between his scales. I read that giving him a bath will drown them, but how long does he need to be in the water? I just gave him a bath in hopes that it would kill them, but in the 15 minutes he was in, he tried to get out 5 times (he really doesn’t like baths ). Any advice on how to get rid of the mites before they get really bad? Does using a steamer work for killing them in his tank?

No comment, not an issue I have ever had to deal with, hopefully another poster will.

I’m not very impressed with the vet. I told him he was on paper towels, and he recommended switching to sand. I asked about switching from crickets to other feeders (because I hate crickets), and he recommended switching to wax worms. He also told me that the UVB light could be outside of the tank as long as the screen didn’t have plastic on it; the box the light came in says screens can block up to 50% of the light. He recommended dusting with calcium no more than 3 times a week, and vitamins at most once a week. He also said not to bother with Bene-Bac, but everything I’ve read says probiotics can’t really hurt, especially when they’re on antibiotics. Any thoughts?

Yikes, not sure what vet would recommend sand, especially when a dragon has coccidia. Keep the paper towel, and do not use sand. You were definitely correct on this one. Other feeders that can be used are Phoenix worms, Dubia, wax worms (occasionally), butter worms (occasionally), horn worms (ocassionally), and superworms as an adult, or for dragons over 16 inches. However, your vet was correct on the UVB, and only because it is a Reptisun 10.0 tube as that tube emits UVB a full 20" from the surface of the lamp, compared to 12" on the ReptiSun 5.0. It is optimal for use with larger terrariums where greater than 12" of UVB penetration is needed.. The ReptiSun 10.0 is also recommended for use above screen covers which can filter out up to 50% of the UVB wavelengths, but not in the Reptisun 10.0's case. I have my UVB(Reptisun 10.0) above the screen cover on my Emmalee (3.5 year) and there have been no issues with her dosage of UVB, no sign of any MBD, and she is a very, very healthy dragon. However, I could not say the same for any other bulb. Not sure about the bene bac although I know others have used it, but like I said above I have used soy yogurt to replenish good gut bacteria with good results. I have used this site as a reference for most everything, but here is their recommendations for vit use, and I have followed this since day 1 http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html. 3 times per week or less for calcuim, and the muli doses that the vet gave you does seem suspicious

Sorry for all of the questions, and thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ShannyBeard]

My dragon with metabolic bone disease (MBD) has a crippled arm like that, and the wrist is held in a very similar position. I always assumed it was a deformity from MBD, but I got him that way so I have no idea. It's really a hard injury or disability for them because they can't climb or put any useful force on that hand/wrist. I hope it doesn't progress or worsen. If you are curious and want to see my dragon's crippled arm, it is in the Papa Smurf thread in my signature.

I agree that getting rid of the sand is a really good idea, for several reasons including the whole infection control issue.

The medications can cause dehydration and thirst, so make sure you soak/bathe your dragon. You can also offer drops of water on the end of his nose and see if he will lick it off.

Probiotics can help them get their appetite back and increase the good gut flora. They will recover better after taking medications if you can offer a probiotic like AcidolphiLiz. You can get it here: http://www.beardeddragons.co/beardeddragon/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=60

I hope your little dragon starts feeling better!!

 

[bumblebee]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I am definitely keeping him on paper towels for a while, and I will look into the soy yogurt and AcidolphiLiz. I am afraid of messing up the effects of the meds he is on - when should I give him the probiotics? He had the 1st dose of meds last Thursday, and will get the 2nd on Monday. Is it okay to give him probiotics now?

Momswims1, I probably will end up switching vets. It was really frustrating because before I even got Dante, I had called the vet's office and they told me he had bearded dragons, that they saw bearded dragons every day, and that he knew what he was doing. Then I took Dante in, and most of the vet's advice contradicted almost everything I had read on here .

bayoupig5, what kind of soy yogurt did you use, and how much? About a mL? I've read that plain soy yogurt is best, but I can only find flavored kinds. The vet did mention that he thought it could be from another dragon biting him or a cage lid shutting on the hand. He said it looked like nerve damage, but did not mention if he thought it was broken. I wondered about using tape like that, but right now with him having coccidia I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to have one more thing bothering him (and one more thing to keep clean).

Shanny, I don't know how he got the injury. I didn't actually notice it until I had had him for several days. He does use it all the time, though, and doesn't seem to be in any pain. I am bathing him at least every other day, but he hates baths and I have to literally hold him in the bin I use for a tub for him. I've tried dripping water on his nose, but he never drinks it. He does eat his greens pretty well considering he is only about 4 months old, though. (And I have seen Papa Smurf's thread, and I think you're doing an amazing job with him. I'm stressed all the time about Dante, and Papa Smurf's issues seem much more challenging.)

 

[ShannyBeard]

Nah, Smurf is older and he's stable now, so there's really not much stress with him. Now, I'd be stressed about Dante for sure. poor little guy. You can get him back to health, though. I found wrapping Smurf's leg was a pain for the same reason your vet said. Trying to remove even that non-stick vet wrap was hard for him and I didn't see any benefit. It's too easy to cause more damage removing wraps, I think.

I can't think of a test you would do on a beardie to find out the reason for the arm twist, unless it was an X-ray to see if there was a broken bone that healed wrong. For humans, to see if his nerves are working, you'd do a nerve conduction study I think. Wish I could think of something to help.

You can try giving him liquid B vitamins. B vitamins play a role in nerve health.

 

[bayoupig5]

Yeah, I could not find plain soy yogurt either, so I think used strawberry, but blueberry, raspberry should be fine as well. In terms of how much, well that depends on the dragon, if he will take more than 1 ml then give him more than 1 ml, but if he takes less give him less, and offer it to him everyday while he is on the meds and about a week after. I wouldn't force him, as we do not want to cause him more stress. Soy is a safe protein and can be used occasionally, so it is ok to give to your dragon during times when he is on the meds.

 

[Momswims1]

Hi. Just wondering how your little Dante is doing today. Any better? There was a beardie named Dante listed on a Reptile Rescue site here in central Florida for a while. He was pretty pitiful looking. Is the the same Dante? Where do you live? So glad you have him now and he is loved, regardless.

 

[Esther19]

You can give the probiotic daily. Just wait 6 hours after you give the meds, so they don't interfere with each other.

 

[bumblebee]

Momswims1, he's much better, I think! He's eating better than he was. I went ahead and gave him some of the Bene-Bac I had, and my mom bought some Repta-Boost for him. I only gave him a little bit of the Repta-Boost because he was a brat and rubbed it all over his basking spot and then jumped down when he decided he was done :roll: so I think he is feeling better. He ate about 13 medium phoenix worms and 3 medium crickets yesterday. I think he doesn't like being watched while he eats, so I'm putting the phoenix worms in his salad bowl, and he eats them really well that way. Thanks for asking about him! And I'm pretty sure it's not the same Dante. He didn't come with the name, and I think the lady I got him from had had him since he was a baby (he's only 4 1/2 months old). I would be too scared to get a severe rescue for my first beardie!

Esther19, thank you! He gets his 2nd dose of meds on Monday at 10, so I will wait until after 4 to give him the probiotics on Monday. I will also give him some today and tomorrow.

 

[Momswims1]

So glad to hear he is doing better, even enough to be a booger and make a mess. Super. Pet his little beard for us. Thanks for the update.

 

[bayoupig5]

I am also happy to hear he is doing well and eating those Phoenix Worms.

 

[ShannyBeard]

Glad he is eating and doing better. That is great news. We have had dragons that go through a phase where they don't want to be watched when they eat, and they all did outgrow that. :roll:

 

[bumblebee]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to give you all an update on Dante (and ask some more questions ). Sorry it's been so long, I've been on vacation.

When I took Dante back to the vet for his second dose of parasite meds on 6/25, I asked about the mites. He confirmed that they were mites and gave me Ivermectin to mix with a quart of water and spray both Dante and his enclosure with every five days. I did three treatments. I still see a few mites on him, but no new ones for a few weeks, and these *may* be dead. We left on vacation on 6/28, and Dante did really well. I know it was still stressful for him, but he rarely had stress marks, and his appetite did not decrease at all. The thing that bothers me is that his poop has never gotten "better." It still smells pretty awful, and it doesn't look "healthy" to me. Please keep in mind that I have no bearded dragon experience other than with Dante, so I don't know what normal looks like. I also have never known his normal. We have been back for 13 days now (we got back the night of 7/15), and I was hoping that giving him two weeks to settle back in would let him get any normal relocation stress related issues under control, but it hasn't gotten better. Do you think I need to take him back to the vet/another vet? He is eating amazingly well (yesterday he ate 75 medium phoenix worms! plus he has been attacking his salad pretty regularly; his salad consists of turnip or mustard greens, some shredded acorn squash, and occasionally a bit of shredded green bean or sugar snap pea).

I do have some good news, too: his front hand/foot that was injured appears to be almost completely better! He uses it normally all the time, and I only sometimes see the fingers curled a bit.

This was from this morning. It always has that ring of liquid around it, and I don't bathe him every day, so I don't think he's overhydrated or anything. It's formed, but looks slimy/mushy. Like I said, I'm not an expert on beardies, so what do you all think?

And now on to some more pleasant pictures :wink:
This was taken while we were on vacation. He loves his thermometer :roll: He also loves to be on top of the probe so that it reads a lot less than it should. Right now, he's laying on the probe, it's reading 96, and he's gaping.

This was also taken while we were on vacation. The bag served as his transport into restaurants and stores. I know I'm biased, but I think he's pretty cute

This was taken the day after we got home.

Please let me know what you think, and if you have any more questions. Thanks!

 

[bayoupig5]

Not sure about the mites, as I have never had those to deal with, but that poop looks good to me. I know exactly what you mean by not having another dragon to compare to, cause I am in the same boat, ans after three years cannot tell what is normal and what is not sometimes.

As far as poop: the poop should be well form and encased such as the pic you provided, the poop should also have a white urate, such as the pic you provided above. If they are hydrated at all, which is a good thing, you will get liquid that comes out with the poop, this is normal. Diarrhoea is when the poop loses it's casing and comes out all watery or broken up. Diarrhoea is usually parasitic, but broken up or slightly lose poop can be from hydration as well. So you will get to know your dragon and normal poop after a while, but so far it looks good.

Thanks for the update, hopefully someone can help more with the mites.

PS he is a very handsome dragon!!