Please Help, I Do Not Know If It Is An Illness

[AHBD]

With a t8 he needs to be 8-10" once you put aluminum behind it. I raised loads of babies without MBD, never had a bulb anymore than 6" from the beardie, that will strain the eyes.

 

[JLynn87]

I've been working on taking everyone's advice and making the changes needed. I mixed a concoction of baby food squash, unflavored Pedialyte, calcium powder and pellets, I put this in a syringe once it cooled down and I still could not get him to really have much of anything. I put it on his nose but he barely licked it, he mostly sat there still as a statue or he would try to get away. After awhile I tried to open his mouth but couldn't, he is so tiny I am afraid I would accidentally hurt him. I patiently did this for about 20 minutes and decided to put them back since he felt cold. I'm not sure if this is the usual reaction and it will improve within the next couple days, But if anyone has any further advice on how to get him to eat I would much appreciate it. He had another really bad smelling poop, it looks normal, but smelled terrible. I am spot cleaning with bleach water and I'm going to clean out his tank every night so he doesn't keep getting sick, if he even is actually sick.

 

[kyleena29]

If it smells that bad then getting a fecal check done would be my next step. I see his is very small. You can try pulling his lip down from the side of his mouth and put some baby food along the side of his mouth on his teeth. Hopefully you can get him to eat it this way. If you use any cleaner, even windex you need to rinse it really well, unless it is f10sc.

 

[EllenD]

Okay, well it sounds like he probably has parasites or a high coccidia count if his poop smelled noticably bad, so I would get the next fresh poop sample to an experienced reptile vet for a fecal. You should be able to call them and just set up dropping it off without an appointment so they can get a diagnosis quickly. If his coccidia count is low I don't advise medicating for that particular issue, as they always typically have a low coccidia count, any experienced reptile vet will know not to medicate for a low coccidia count, but if it's moderate or high, which I suspect it is, then please request Toltrazuril (Ponazuril) as the antiprotozoan med, and not Albon. The Albon is a longer course of meds, harsher on their stomachs, and doesn't always work the first time and requires a second round of meds. The Toltrazuril (Ponazuril) is a 2-3 day course and they actually usually feel better and show marked improvement after one dose. If it's worms he'll most likely get Panacur, which is fine, but request a reptile probiotic to replenish his healthy, normal flora in his gastrointestinal tract and avoid a secondary yeast infection (probiotics also settle their tummies). In the meantime you could try giving him some non-dairy soy yogurt or acidophilus to try and make him feel better and get his system back on track.

A high coccidia count or worms/parasites is very common in new babies, don't stress too much about it. And yes, please feel free to handle him a little each day, talk softly to him and get him used to your voice. This issue isn't a huge deal, not like Adenovirus or some other ones, it's very common with baby beardies from both pet shops and breeders, and he'll be fine. I wouldn't force feed him though, keep offering the live insects (dusted) as usual and the slurries, get as much nutrition and hydration in him as you can, but force feeding him will only cause more unnecessary stress. The reptile vet may give you Oxbow Critical Care to feed him, just like the slurries, until the parasite meds start working, that would be good too, but hopefully he'll eat a few crickets each day and a little nutritional supplement too, and once he gets the meds working he should be fine.

 

[JLynn87]

I have continued to offer live insects and I am trying to make it home during work so he is being offered 3x as opposed to 2x. This afternoon his eyes were puffy year and he ran from the crickets, I have tried syringe feeding S suggested and he continued to refuse what was offered. I panicked and took him to the vet, the fecal sample I offered was not enough to test, but the vet (reptile specialist) examined him. He lost 1 gram in the course of 1 to 1 1/2 weeks, she gave me critical care herbivore food to be mixed in with water (I used the unflavored Pedialyte) and various types of syringe is to try. Our use the curved tip syringe and put some on his nose, he did not go for that so I put some on the inside of his mouth and he ate a little bit, while doing as I accidentally pushed a little too hard on the syringe and he got a mouthful. I gave him a warm bath and he drink a little water, I try to offer him some Dubia roaches quarter inch in size, he showed no interest in eating any; I decided to put them back in his home since we were both overly stressed. The vet said if he doesn't start eating within a week then I will need to bring him back in for possible tube feeding or they will try to find another way in hopes of getting him to eat; the vet said she's avoiding any type of anabiotic or any other type of medicine unless we have to take more drastic measures. She told me that being 4 to 6 inches away from the UVB was perfectly fine and his temperature readings sounds good; she also agreed that a large part of this could be due to stress and to watch out for dehydration as that is more of an issue than anything else at this time (of course his weight loss is also a big deal).

Thank you all so much for your guidance, without it I think we both would've been worse off.

Please pray that my little guy starts to eat and improves without having to be taken back to the vet or given any kind of medicine, I don't believe in prescribing medicine for just anything with people nor do I for animals. Aside from the family dog growing up this is the first Pat I've had, it may have only been just over two weeks, but I am certain my heart would break if he died.

There were some questions that were asked that I did not address. As far as his tail goes I will upload some closer images, it is not always kinked like that he does straighten it. If the kink in his tail wasn't due to injury, what with that indicate?

Also I use a reptisun T8 10.0, I placed tinfoil so that the light would shine down. His coloring looks pretty vibrant to me, while he is not full of energy he does have some spunk when I take him out of his tank (I am guessing it is related to both fear and curiosity)

 

[JLynn87]

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Was the tail like that when you got him? If so, he likely had an injury of some sort or a slight calcium issue. It has healed back now, correct? It doesn't look like an open wound. He can straighten it? It
may have just grown wrong for some reason.
At least you did manage to get some food into him, even if it was accidental! Maybe he liked it &
will eat some next time with out much trouble.
I am glad to hear that the vet isn't overzealous about medicating, etc. I think a lot of times things
can be taken care of without many meds or a lot of times, without any at all.
They tend to like running around out of their tanks. They are very curious most of the times, too.
It's a good sign if he is alert & has spirit when you take him out.
The foil should help to direct the UVB downward more towards him.
I hope he starts to improve for you soon. You are doing great, definitely try to keep him well
hydrated as much as you can.

Tracie

 

[EllenD]

I agree, unless you end up taking a fecal sample in and it comes back as positive for moderate to high worms or coccidia, there is no reason to medicate. That being said, if he does continue to lose weight (at his small size even 1 gram can be a big deal) even though you're getting nutrition into him, that is also a huge sign of high coccidia counts or worms, as they steal the nutrition they eat and the dragon loses weight. I would still recommend the probiotics once a day until he starts eating normally, because if he does have high parasite counts the probiotics can help him for a number of reasons, most importantly by stimulating his appetite and replenishing the normal, healthy bacteria throughout his gastrointestinal tract that keep fungal infections at bay and keep him properly digesting his food. Probiotics are something that are given even when a person or animal isn't ill, so a beardie with suspected parasites, or with gastrointestinal issues suspected to be caused by high stress, which can also kill off normal flora, can greatly benefit from a daily dose of dairy-free soy yogurt or acidophilus.

 

[JLynn87]

I am rereading through the post to see if you mention what kind of probiotics I know for people there are several different ones and I want to make sure I get the best one for him. He is still not eating I am trying to get him to eat I put a drop on his nose sometimes he licks it off other times he does not. I have tried to force feeding thing by pulling down the side of his lips and putting food up by his teeth, while he does get some in there it was very stressful on us both to do it this way as he is so small I am afraid I am going to seriously injure him. He is getting very very little nutrients, I added some of The critical care food to his water just in case he drinks some, I am also attempting the syringe at least three times a day if not more, I am also giving him fresh greens and putting some of the critical care "juice" on the leaves in hopes that he will get added nutrients that way. I am continuing to offer him live Dubia roaches, he runs from them as if he is scared, he started doing this with the crickets too, he did not do this when I first got him.

If he doesn't start getting more nutrients by the end of this week the vet told me to bring him in either Friday or early next week for tube feeding, what is everyone's take on this? Tube feeding Is invasive and Traumatic, I do not want to put him through this, would this be in his best interest if it comes to that?

 

[JLynn87]

My baby is eating a few drops today! It didn't seem like nearly enough but it is improvement. I gave him a bath this morning are usually do this at night but I am finding that he does better when I give him a bath so I hope it is not bad if I give him another one tonight it won't be a routine just until he starts to feel better. I am letting him loose in the bathroom while I get ready for work he seems to be curious these all seem like good signs to me, thank you everyone for your help I wouldn't of been able to make it without you guys!

 

[EllenD]

I believe he's not eating because he's got parasites or worms, or a very high coccidia count. Tube feeding is necessary if he's not eating and losing weight, but you're correct, it's stressful. Did you get a fecal sample to the vet? That's absolutely step #1, before medicating. The vet needs to realize that yes it was good to wait and see, but at this point something is wrong. But do not let them medicate her without doing a fecal!!! More than likely if they do that she'll get the wrong medication.

As for probiotics you can use either non-dairy soy yogurt or acidophilus. Drip it on her nose...

 

[JLynn87]

So my baby dragon it's still only having a few drops of his critical care diet, I have also noticed his last two stools look grainy and are on formed (looks like the food I feed to him in the dropper). He is darker than usual and I think he is shedding, when I was giving him a bath I seen flakes floating in the water, he also had white looking patches on his body before. He has always been somewhat curious when I let him roam in the bathroom, but today he is just laying down. I have not been able to get a fecal sample to the vet, the last sample I took was dry and two small, I am not sure I can get an adequate sample.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Your baby is shedding now? That definitely affects the appetite a lot. However, he is too small
to lose anymore weight. I hope you can get a fecal done to see what is going on. Keep trying]
with the critical care & food. Did you add in chicken or turkey baby food with sweet potato or
squash baby food mixed in with it? That helps the taste of it for them.
I hope he starts doing better soon. Be sure to keep him warm overnight since he isn't feeling
well, usually around 80 is fine.

Tracie

 

[JLynn87]

Thank you, I didn't know that he should be that warm at night when he isn't feeling well!

I have not been adding anything other than water to the diet from the vet, but I do have some baby food squash from when I was syringe feeding him before I took him to the vet.

Is there a cheap place where I can get a scale that can weigh 0.1 g, I just don't trust my scale I don't think it weighs something that light the only time I get accurate readings is at the vet.

 

[EllenD]

You can get a digital kitchen scale at Walmart, they have a bunch of different ones, all that will read the appropriate ranges, and cost between $15-$25. I use one from there that cost $15 and I find it very accurate compared to my certified reptile vet's expensive, digital, medical scale.

It should not matter one bit if a fecal sample is "too dry", that has nothing to do with a float test or a gram stain and microscopy. He really does need to get the fecal testing done ASAP, as he cannot afford to lose anymore weight at all, us he's not getting adequate calcium or Vitamin B1 or D3 intake, and at his age this is going to result in bone density issues like MBD, vitamin B1 deficiency, which has the same end results as MBD, and severely stunted growth. Most parasites and/or worms eat any and all nutrition that the host animal is eating, so she could potentially be losing everything you're giving her. Any fecal sample that is solid, whether wet or dry, should be fine for all tests, and even a runny sample can be tested by gram stain and microscopy, even if a float test can't be done. Usually worms and coccidia are very visible under a microscope if gram stained.