Please help... I am worried!

[jewels]

I am a new beardie owner, and I am concerned about my baby. I would be very grateful for some help. I recently got my BD (it will be two weeks on saturday) from a breeder. He is approx. 5 months old and about 15 inches. He is an orange Hypo with some yellow and lavender bars on his sides. I mention this because when I got him he was fairly light in color, and the orange was bright. Over the last two weeks he has turned very dark and lost his color. I've read that when others take their BD out in the sun it makes the coloring brighter and light. When I take mine outside, he gets VERY dark. And I've noticed that when inside, he is darkest while he is basking. Is there something wrong? Why would he turn dark and loose his color? I don't think he is going to shed because he was just finishing a shed when I got him. Also, he isn't dull, just dark and brown/gray, without his normal color. I don't know if this is a behavior thing or a health problem, but I am very worried. He is also fairly dormant. He doesn't move around very much. Is that normal for a 5 month old? And I don't think his appetite is what it should be. He barely touches his greens in the morning, and it's only been the last couple days that I've gotten him to eat more than a few crickets/superworms. I figured the loss of appetite was relocation stress, but then his color changed and I got worried. The more I write the more I think I should have posted this in the Health Problem forum. Sorry! I have him in a 40 gal breeder (36 x 18 x 16) tank temporarily until my husband can build a bigger viv. I am using the 18 inch Reptisun 10 for uvb, and a 150 watt household bulb for heat. They are placed side by side on the tank's screen lid, with the heat source on the end of the tank. I ordered a temp gun last week but it hasn't arrived yet. I've been using a cheap thermometer stuck to the inside of his tank wall, but I don't think it's very accurate. On the hot side it is only reading 90-95. His basking rock is about 4 inches high, so he is less than 12 inches from the lights by the time you add his body height. Please help me! I don't think he is thriving! Is he dark because he is trying to attract more uvb/heat? Or does that happen when they get sick? Thank you to anyone who can help me figure this out. I am so worried! I have never owned a reptile before and I don't want him to suffer because of my ignorance. I have a dog, cat, parrot, guinea pigs (2), hamster, and fish.... but I've never worried about any of them like I have about this little guy in only two weeks time!

 

[zebraflavencs]

Hi sweetheart ! Welcome to the Family !
NOW BREATH !
Your baby is fine... Can't say what the current temps are since the therms you have currently can be off by as much as 20*F +/-. I suspect things are fine. Yes dragons darken when basking. Is your baby opening mouth when basking ? This means baby is regulating the heat/temps in body, and is quite normal. When you get that temp gun, you will be able to see instantly what temps are.
Basking for a 5 month old temps: 105-110*F, Cool side 75-85*F.
If those are the correct temps ( with the gun) then don't worry.
I would, however raise the basking spot under the UVB to 6-8" from that light.
Also making sure that the basking bulb is right around 12" distance from basking dragon, so no over heating.
Yes, that's fine he's not eating veggies yet, what he needs are those insects !
And yes, relocation stress most likely is done or almost done, so he should be starting to eat more.
Also, do you offer daily bathes ?

Bathing:
Water to shoulders, temps of water baby warm (90-100*F) totally supervised for around 15 minutes max, daily. This will not only help rehydrate him, but makes for easy sheds, and if he learns to poo in his bath, less smelly cleanups for you.

Is he pooing daily now ? If you see poop on a daily basis, you are good
What color are his urates, the lightest part and normally the first portion of the poo.
Hope this helps, and breath Again
Janie

 

[jewels]

Hi Janie! Thank you SO much for answering! So it is normal for him to turn really dark when basking. That makes me feel better. His breeder commented about how the coloring gets even better out in the sun, so I was worried that he turns almost black on his back when I take him outside. I have to say that he is darker and less colorful all around though, even when not outside or under his basking light. Why is that? Is there something I need to do to help his normal color come back? I do give him a 15-20 min, baby-water-warm, bath almost every day (probably 5 days a week). He doesn't swim or move around at all, but I figure at least he won't be dehydrated. So how do I get his uvb distance to 6-8 inches, and his heat distance at 12 inches, if the lights are next to each other? Do I need to change how my lights are sitting, or is there a different way to do it? Right now the tube and the bulb look like this: _O________ The basking rock is placed so that it is under both lights. He used to gape while basking when I first got him, but not since he's been in this tank with these lights (8 or 9 days). The first few days he was in a large box and I propped my husband's shop light (it's in a metal cage looking thing with an extension cord, I think it's a halogen and it gets pretty hot) up above the box and pointed down so it shown in one corner. I didn't have a uvb tube the first few days either, so I would take him outside for a couple hours each day. During that time he did gape while basking and he was his normal light self with his orange coloring. Then a friend gave us his son's old 40 gal breeder tank to use until we build/buy something of our own. That's when I bought the 18 inch Reptisun 10 and an incandescent 100 watt bulb to put on top of the screen lid. After that he started turning dark. I hadn't noticed that he had stopped gaping, but now that you mentioned it, he hasn't done that since he's been in the tank. My cheap thermometer only read 85-90 with the 100 watt, so I got a 150 watt to see if it would put out more heat. It does, but only a little (90-95). I'll wait till the temp gun comes, but if the temps still aren't right, what are my heat options then? I can't find anything higher than a 150 watt incandescent. Can I use a flood light or a heat lamp or a halogen? I don't know what the difference is between any of them! I don't know what is considered healthy or safe. He doesn't poo everyday. Well sometimes he'll poo a couple days in a row, but he usually goes a day or sometimes two in between. His urate is white and the whole thing is slimy/wet and stinky! He has eaten his insects better the last 3 or 4 days. I have given him small crickets and superworms and wax worms. I ordered some phoenix worms and some dubia roaches, but they haven't come yet either! Luckily the Rep Cal and Herpavite that I also ordered did come the other day. So now I'm dusting his bugs once a day with the Rep Cal and I'll substitute the Herpavite once a week. Speaking of once a day, right now he is only interested in eating once a day. Is that okay or should he be eating more? I give him his salad in the morning and he'll nibble at it a bit, and then I give him his bugs in the afternoon. Is that okay? Is there anything else I should be doing or that I should know?! The learning curve on BD husbandry is a bit daunting! THANK YOU again for your help!

 

[zebraflavencs]

lol... Been there with all you are hip deep into now
Okay, so I am guessing temps are not hot enough. Use a flood light, around a 100 w, that should do the trick... again, we don't know for certain exact temps, but I am guessing he needs warmer.
Good on the baths... That's fine.. In time he will get used to those...
Good looking poops too. Oh, is the stinky like room clearing , run for the bucket stinky ? If so that might be an indication of parasites. Get a fecal exam done if that is the case.
Yeahhhhh wellllll I feed mine all ( those still awake that is...) salads first thing, lights on, 5 days a week with the cal, on the weekends the vits... Good schedule to follow
Now as to the feeding, try to offer at least two different feedings daily, first being an hour after lights on, last being at least 1-2 hours lights off. Let him have the crix, as long as they are no longer than distance between his eyes. Nix on the mealies and waxes are only a treat...
Here this might prove to be helpful
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
Green for daily staples, and Black for treats, 1-2 times a week. Ignore the rest, and you will be fine.
As for raising the basking area... I tend to use bricks... Yup regular old house hold bricks, that I have scrubbed, then baked in the oven for an hour @ 250*F.
The first to remove any dirt, the second to kill any parasites or tag alongs hiding in the baked clay.
Here:

See how I have those bricks piled up ? Same ones from his 55 tank that he was housed in before this viv was completed. That's Orion by the way... Currently down for brumation...You won't have to worry about that for a year...
If you can do that, to with in 6-8 inches, he will get the full benefits of that uvb, and angling the other light to shine onto the same area should help as well.

okay, I think I got you covered, at least for now... we'll do this all over again, when that temp gun comes in..Oh, and aim that gun with in 2" of the surface you desire an accurate temp on
Janie.

 

[jewels]

Thanks again Janie! So if I have bricks that are stacked like that, or a branch that is slanted, with the top end being 6-8 inches away from the uvb and the heat light (since they are both sitting next to each other on the screen lid), and the bottom graduating down to the floor of the tank (16 inches deep), that would be good? He won't burn himself with the heat lamp if he's up close for a while? He'd move up and down as needed, right? I don't see how else he is supposed to get both uvb and heat at the same time when the distances are different for each and the lights are sitting right next to each other. Sometimes I think it would be easier to use a MVB like the MegaRay, but I worry about safety since the lighting currently has to sit on top of the lid (which means it has to be moved each time we get him out) and the tank is in my sons' room (ages 6 and 9). I want to get him in to a front access cage with the lighting attached to the inside ceiling. Would a MVB be better at that point, or would you still stick with the Reptisun 10 and a separate light for heat right next to it?

 

[zebraflavencs]

With 4 dragons in the house, I have two under Megas, Orion is one, Gem is the other, and two under suns, Yardley and Lady Annebelle ( just arrived this morning ).
I built the vivs for Gem and Rion with Megas in mind, but have the other two darlings in more compact temp vivs for now... so those two are under suns.

until you have something sturdy enough and tall enough to house the megas, stick with the sun
janie

As long as the uvb is accessed with in the 6-8" yet around 12" away from the heat, you should be good... Have you thought of using a stand alone floor lamp as a place to clamp on that heat ?

 

[jewels]

Oh that is brilliant! I hadn't thought of raising the heat source UP! I guess my brain is a bit overloaded! :wink: That would definitely make it easier to rectify the need for different distances. I saw a terrarium lamp stand (ZooMed?) at the pet store. I'll see if that works. Oh, do you think if the heat light is higher and shining down next to the plastic hood I have the Reptisun in, that it could melt it? Might it work to leave the light sitting on the screen, but get a lower watt bulb so it is not as hot and keeps the 6-8 inch removed basking spot at the right temp? Or would any light burn him at that distance? Sorry for so many questions. With your help I'll get it figured out yet! One more thing, how big of cage is needed if I wanted to use the Megaray? He'll be in this tank for a little while until I can either find one I like to buy, or I get my hubby to make something custom. I'll stick with the Reptisun for now, but it would be good to know what size of cage is necessary to use the Megaray, just in case. Thanks again... I really appreciate the help.

 

[Loganator]

You need at least a 40 gallon tank to use a Mercury Vapor bulb, nothing smaller is recommended. I have a 40 gallon breeder and use the
T-Rex MVB. The difference in my Izzy's health, appetite, colors and activity level was incredible when I switched to the mercury vapor bulb. Yes, they are more expensive, but they last longer(12-18 months) and you do not need a separate heat source. I love it!

By the way, you mentioned that in your "forever" viv, you were thinking about having the light source(s) mounted inside on the ceiling? Keep in mind, that with an MVB, you want a minimum of 12'' between the bulb and your beardie.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Min 40 gal breeder for any MVB. Megas are the best, then the Trex.
my first viv measures... 49"x 32"h x 24" wide... Second measures 48"l x 49"h x 24"w.
I'll let you know what the last two (stackables) turn out to be...
Why spend $$ when you can find a stand alone lamp out on the street on rubbish removal day ?
Thrifty Janie.

 

[jewels]

Thanks guys!!! You are great! I will definitely be considering the MegaRay when I get a new viv. Until then I am glad to have the ReptiSun! And Janie, I agree. Since this isn't his permanent home, I might as well find a used light stand to get me by until I know what I'm really doing with his viv. Did you think that my concern of melting the plastic top of the terrarium hood right next to it (holding the uvb tube) is founded at all? I don't want to ruin a brand new fixture ($40 at Petco I needed it fast) or start a fire!

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Bump!!