Now we have a new problem with Honey. Her tail is dying. The vet thinks she has a blood clot in her tail. Not sure how she could've gotten a blood clot in her tail though. Could also be necrosis or tail rot. It started at the tip, and is working it's way up. She's going to loose at least half of her tail if it falls off before surgery (which it sounds like surgery will be best considering). Any ideas on what to do to help slow this down or stop it?? She gets a bath for 15 minutes - half an hour every other day. Should I increase the days she's getting a bath? Should I ask the vet about adding betadine to the water? What about applying silver sulfadiazine to her tail?? I see the vet again next Saturday. Sadly my vet is on leave until then since she had an emergency arise.
Please Help!! Concerned and lost.
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Can you post a few pics of her tail ? Is the trauma maybe from the area that the blood was drawn ?
Reptilelady
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Hi, I'm sorry she has gotten a blood clot in her tail. I would add a few drops of betadine to the tail anyway. When I accidentally slammed on my beardies tail I did that with her + honey and seemed to work out so certainly try it. Other than I am not sure :?
The vet drew blood from the base of her tail right behind her hind legs. I will post pics as soon as I can. This is seriously stressing me out. Honey is still willing to fight though, so I don't want to give up on her. She doesn't want to eat any insects still though. She is eating baby food (pure organic baby food that only has what it says it has and nothing else) just fine. She doesn't really care for the butternut squash though. Lol. She doesn't really care any type of squash though really. Her stool is starting to firm up again though which is fantastic. The swelling is starting to subside in her limbs as well. Her legs are more like dough instead of a rock where the inflammation is at on her limbs. The swelling in her toes is also getting better.
Let me knw if these pics aren't the best. Will upload different ones. Her tail is hard like a rock. Doesn't bend at all. Still kind of squishy per say were my finger is at (pictures 1 and 3). She hasn't had any trauma done to her tail at all. The only trauma she has had is her surgery and that was back in August. The tail thing is like the most recent turn of events since then. She may end up loosing her tail up to where my finger is at (pictures 1 and 3).
Wow, what a horrible time she has had...so is she having surgery to remove the embolism? Where is she on that situation? Because one may influence the other...
Honestly, in my own personal opinion if it was one of my babies, and also in my medical opinion, I would just get that tail amputated about a half inch or so above the line of necrotic tissue. I would not at all mess around with any more antibiotics for sure, she will be on more antibiotics if she has surgery to remove the embolism for sure, and honestly in a completely healthy dragon with either an infection in their tail that is causing spreading necrosis (Tail Rot) or once with a circulation issue causing necrosis, antibiotics typically do little to help stop it, nor do topical treatments like prescription antibiotic cremes, Colloidal Silver, etc.
The circulation to their tails is poor to begin with, which is why infections in their tails is so hard to treat with antibiotics, whether injected, taken orally, put on directly in a topical form, or all 3. It rarely works to stop the spread of the necrosis. As I recall the issues with her tail started quite a while ago, from the end/tip of her tail, correct? It could have originally been caused by a localized infection, a tiny band of retained shed that was constricting the blood flow, it could have been the embolism in her abdomen causing a constriction in the blood flow to her tail (you don't know how long that embolism has been there growing, as it wouldn't show up on just a plain-film x-ray like the follicles would), or the blood flow may have been effected by the generalized swelling caused by the embolism. The tissue of the tail itself does not look like the typical necrosis that is caused by a bacterial or fungal infection that keeps spreading upward and causing necrosis all along it's way towards her body (Tail Rot), typically that tissue outwardly looks "infected" and actually turns black, shrivels up, and then falls up, while the necrosis continues to spread up the tail, which is visible by the black tissue spreading. That's not what the tissue of her tail looks like, it just looks like it's becoming hardened and then drying up, which to me represents a circulation issue to her tail. Any way you slice it though it doesn't really matter what the cause is, it's not going to stop spreading, at least most likely it's not going to stop spreading (especially if you don't know the cause).
If the embolism is the cause of the issue and is what is effecting the circulation to the tail (It would have to be effecting the circulation to her "Ventral Tail Vein, AKA the Coccygeal Tail Vein), which is also the vein they typically take blood from at the base of the tail (I don't know what the timing was regarding when she first had a blood draw done from her tail and when the tail tissue started to show signs of dying), yes if you remove the embolism successfully that would also likely restore the circulation to the remainder of her tail, but the problems with waiting are #1) You don't know if that's the cause to begin with, #2) Even if it is the cause it doesn't mean that restoring the blood flow will stop the necrosis anyway, and #3) If you wait to do an amputation above the necrotic tissue line and there is an infection of some sort, that infection could cause many complications with the embolism, especially AFTER the surgery to remove the embolism. The last thing she would need after an embolectomy would be a remaining infection in her tail spreading to her bloodstream.
She doesn't need her tail, and in my own opinion it's not worth waiting around and trying to do cultures to determine the correct antibiotics to try, then trying different antibiotics that probably won't work, and she's already stopped eating her normal diet, etc. I'd just have the amputation above the necrotic line done ASAP, it's a simple procedure that isn't that invasive at all, and it will stop the issue on the spot.
Honestly, in my own personal opinion if it was one of my babies, and also in my medical opinion, I would just get that tail amputated about a half inch or so above the line of necrotic tissue. I would not at all mess around with any more antibiotics for sure, she will be on more antibiotics if she has surgery to remove the embolism for sure, and honestly in a completely healthy dragon with either an infection in their tail that is causing spreading necrosis (Tail Rot) or once with a circulation issue causing necrosis, antibiotics typically do little to help stop it, nor do topical treatments like prescription antibiotic cremes, Colloidal Silver, etc.
The circulation to their tails is poor to begin with, which is why infections in their tails is so hard to treat with antibiotics, whether injected, taken orally, put on directly in a topical form, or all 3. It rarely works to stop the spread of the necrosis. As I recall the issues with her tail started quite a while ago, from the end/tip of her tail, correct? It could have originally been caused by a localized infection, a tiny band of retained shed that was constricting the blood flow, it could have been the embolism in her abdomen causing a constriction in the blood flow to her tail (you don't know how long that embolism has been there growing, as it wouldn't show up on just a plain-film x-ray like the follicles would), or the blood flow may have been effected by the generalized swelling caused by the embolism. The tissue of the tail itself does not look like the typical necrosis that is caused by a bacterial or fungal infection that keeps spreading upward and causing necrosis all along it's way towards her body (Tail Rot), typically that tissue outwardly looks "infected" and actually turns black, shrivels up, and then falls up, while the necrosis continues to spread up the tail, which is visible by the black tissue spreading. That's not what the tissue of her tail looks like, it just looks like it's becoming hardened and then drying up, which to me represents a circulation issue to her tail. Any way you slice it though it doesn't really matter what the cause is, it's not going to stop spreading, at least most likely it's not going to stop spreading (especially if you don't know the cause).
If the embolism is the cause of the issue and is what is effecting the circulation to the tail (It would have to be effecting the circulation to her "Ventral Tail Vein, AKA the Coccygeal Tail Vein), which is also the vein they typically take blood from at the base of the tail (I don't know what the timing was regarding when she first had a blood draw done from her tail and when the tail tissue started to show signs of dying), yes if you remove the embolism successfully that would also likely restore the circulation to the remainder of her tail, but the problems with waiting are #1) You don't know if that's the cause to begin with, #2) Even if it is the cause it doesn't mean that restoring the blood flow will stop the necrosis anyway, and #3) If you wait to do an amputation above the necrotic tissue line and there is an infection of some sort, that infection could cause many complications with the embolism, especially AFTER the surgery to remove the embolism. The last thing she would need after an embolectomy would be a remaining infection in her tail spreading to her bloodstream.
She doesn't need her tail, and in my own opinion it's not worth waiting around and trying to do cultures to determine the correct antibiotics to try, then trying different antibiotics that probably won't work, and she's already stopped eating her normal diet, etc. I'd just have the amputation above the necrotic line done ASAP, it's a simple procedure that isn't that invasive at all, and it will stop the issue on the spot.
I'm not waiting and doing cultures and all that jazz. Even if the vet wants to....she can kiss my ass. Excuse my language. I am waiting to see her vet to go over what another vet said about her ultrasound. She sees her vet this Saturday (12/2 @ 10:30 am). Honey's vet sent out the ultrasound to have another look to indeed make sure it is an embolism upon my request. I will have to take Honey bck to the first vet who did her surgery in the first place. I am with another vet at the moment since they are closer and I can't keep traveling 2.5 hours away from home every 2 weeks. Honey is still fighting, and I'm not giving up on her. I don't feel 100% comfortable with the vet I am with currently and us why I am asking questions, reaching out, and doing research.
They didn't act like they really cared until I told them that she is a properly registered ESA. I showed them the letter from my doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist, and her credentials. Then that's when this place started to show that they cared. Honestly felt like all they wanted was money from me. I was treated like crap at first at this facility as well. I suck it up and ate the b.s. for Honey. They fought with me, and I fought bck harder for Honey. The necrosis started a little before the appointment was made to draw her blood. Seen her calcium lvls were a little high, but everything else was normal. It has been stressful. I have had ppl tell me to euthanize her, buy a new lizard, and all kinds of other heartless (in my opinion heartless) bs.
But again...Honey is still willing and wanting to fight. Why give up on her if she isn't ready for me to give up on her. She has came a long way from where we first were at. Yes sadly things keep coming up that is wrong with her. I have been pulling over time and literally killing myself at work to make sure I have the money for whatever is thrown at me to take care of her. I have also been in contact with my main vet that is 2.5hours away. She also has been getting all records faxed over as well so she can view them. She wants the results from the ultrasound first to see what our next step will be. She knows about Honey's tail. She already said that we need to schedule a surgery for that. She wants to see what the specialist says about the ultrasound images as well though. If she has an embolism....we will schedule the surgery for that and her tail for the same day.
They didn't act like they really cared until I told them that she is a properly registered ESA. I showed them the letter from my doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist, and her credentials. Then that's when this place started to show that they cared. Honestly felt like all they wanted was money from me. I was treated like crap at first at this facility as well. I suck it up and ate the b.s. for Honey. They fought with me, and I fought bck harder for Honey. The necrosis started a little before the appointment was made to draw her blood. Seen her calcium lvls were a little high, but everything else was normal. It has been stressful. I have had ppl tell me to euthanize her, buy a new lizard, and all kinds of other heartless (in my opinion heartless) bs.
But again...Honey is still willing and wanting to fight. Why give up on her if she isn't ready for me to give up on her. She has came a long way from where we first were at. Yes sadly things keep coming up that is wrong with her. I have been pulling over time and literally killing myself at work to make sure I have the money for whatever is thrown at me to take care of her. I have also been in contact with my main vet that is 2.5hours away. She also has been getting all records faxed over as well so she can view them. She wants the results from the ultrasound first to see what our next step will be. She knows about Honey's tail. She already said that we need to schedule a surgery for that. She wants to see what the specialist says about the ultrasound images as well though. If she has an embolism....we will schedule the surgery for that and her tail for the same day.
That sounds like a very good plan, as long as it happens ASAP. Doing both procedures at the same time is definitely the way to go, less stress, only one time putting her under, only one round of follow-up antibiotics, etc. And it will also cost less to do both at once. And it's a very good idea to have at least one other Reptile Vet look at that ultrasound to confirm the embolism, because that's certainly not anything to "Guess" about. If you don't feel comfortable with this current vet then yes, please have your other vet do the procedures, especially removing the embolism, as that is an extremely delicate surgery that you want not only a skilled vet doing, but also a very caring vet doing...
I wouldn't give up on her either, some people mean well when they say to euthanize her, as they want to eliminate your stress and put her out of pain, but they just don't get it. So as long as she is still fighting and seems like she's not suffering then by all means, keep on going. The tail issue is not that big a deal at all as long as it's taken care of before any type of infection spreads into her bloodstream, so that's certainly no reason to give up on her, and it actually is quite a common problem with dragons because of the poor circulation in their tails. As far as the embolism goes, if it definitely is an embolism, it's a serious condition and a serious surgery, but she will definitely not live if she doesn't have it done, and if the surgery is successful she'll likely be fine, so by all means, go for it...keep us posted, we're routing for Honey!!!
I wouldn't give up on her either, some people mean well when they say to euthanize her, as they want to eliminate your stress and put her out of pain, but they just don't get it. So as long as she is still fighting and seems like she's not suffering then by all means, keep on going. The tail issue is not that big a deal at all as long as it's taken care of before any type of infection spreads into her bloodstream, so that's certainly no reason to give up on her, and it actually is quite a common problem with dragons because of the poor circulation in their tails. As far as the embolism goes, if it definitely is an embolism, it's a serious condition and a serious surgery, but she will definitely not live if she doesn't have it done, and if the surgery is successful she'll likely be fine, so by all means, go for it...keep us posted, we're routing for Honey!!!
So, Honey goes this Thursday for surgery. She is going to have the dead part of her tail amputated. We are also doing an exploratory as well. On December 2nd she was put back on Chloramphenicol (antibiotic) for the abscesses. She didn't have an embolism at all. Was actually abscesses once again. Well, on December 26th we went back in to see the doctor. Honey had another small (about the size of a pea if not a bit smaller) on her abdomen next to where the incision line is at from her spay surgery. The doctor concluded it is another abscess and I contacted my original vet that is 2.5 hours away. I sent her Honey's Ultrasound via email (since I recorded it on my phone) and also told her what was said as well. I got an email back today from the doctor that is 2.5 hours away, and this is what she said.
"Unfortunately I cannot tell you how long surgery will take. Exploratory surgery can really vary depending on what we are getting into as far as abnormalities we need to address. The tail amputation should only take an half hour or so. I do have 4 other surgical procedures the same day so I am unsure exactly what time I will be going into surgery with her. We will of course do everything we can to try to minimize risk and make surgery as complication free as we can. I will have some time to watch the ultrasound video tomorrow. I may also call (other doctor's name) to discuss Honey prior to going into surgery with her. I will be available Thursday morning to answer any other questions you may have."
So I am scared to death even more than I was. I'm even more of a nervous wreck as well. Honey still seems to be doing fine, but I am still worried regardless. I will let you all know what happens Thursday. I hope, pray, and have fingers crossed that everything goes well for my baby girl. If you all would please keep her in your thoughts and prayers too. She definitely needs it. Thank-you all in advance. Will update on Thursday.
"Unfortunately I cannot tell you how long surgery will take. Exploratory surgery can really vary depending on what we are getting into as far as abnormalities we need to address. The tail amputation should only take an half hour or so. I do have 4 other surgical procedures the same day so I am unsure exactly what time I will be going into surgery with her. We will of course do everything we can to try to minimize risk and make surgery as complication free as we can. I will have some time to watch the ultrasound video tomorrow. I may also call (other doctor's name) to discuss Honey prior to going into surgery with her. I will be available Thursday morning to answer any other questions you may have."
So I am scared to death even more than I was. I'm even more of a nervous wreck as well. Honey still seems to be doing fine, but I am still worried regardless. I will let you all know what happens Thursday. I hope, pray, and have fingers crossed that everything goes well for my baby girl. If you all would please keep her in your thoughts and prayers too. She definitely needs it. Thank-you all in advance. Will update on Thursday.
Bear bear is in recovery. She had several abscesses that needed to be removed. She has a fatty liver. The doctor took a sample and we are having it be sent out to have it tested to find out what we should do further. I got to see pictures that the doctor took as well of her liver, the abscesses and also her G.I tract as well. Her G.I tract is full of fluid. Long way to recovery, but we are on the right road. The doctor removed an inch of Honey's tail as well to make sure she got all of the bad tissue and any infection that may be there. Honey will be rdy to go home around 4:30-5. Can't wait to take my baby home and take care of her. She also had abscesses floating around in her abdomen as well. She also had a piece of her rib removed as well because an abscess was wrapped around it so bad to that the point that there was no way of getting it out and off of the rib without removing that portion of her rib.
I went at 4 to pick up Honey. Was taken into an exam room to get instructions on meds and what not from the doctor. Something told me to check on Honey. It didn't look like she was breathing at all. Took her to the reception desk and they immediately took her to the back. I went back into the exam room. Remembered I didn't have Honey's meds with me that I took this morning for her to get. I was told they were in the back with her on the table. Honey in fact did stop breathing. Went bck to the exam room bawling my eyes out. After an hour of doing CPR, having her hooked up to oxygen, and using norepinephrine....She didn't make it. My baby girl passed away. She is sadly and unfortunately no longer with me. I am taking it hard. Her last ride home was the same way we went EVERYWHERE....in my jacket. She was wrapped in the towel that they had given me. That was her last ride home. When the doctor bought her into the exam room...the doctor asked me if I wanted her on the exam table or if I wanted. I told the doctor I wanted her. I cuddled her, kissed her, told her I love her, and told her I am sorry for letting her down. She fought the anesthesia. The doctor had to do an injection of the anesthesia via vain in her tail. The anesthesia was mild enough that it wouldn't affect her liver at all considering all that she had going on. Honey knew if she went under....She wasn't going to come home. I miss her sooo much. I have never lost a child before, but if I had to imagine the pain...I would say loosing Honey was like loosing a child. Thank-you all for everything and for all of your support.
By the way....the largest of the abscesses that I was told was NOT an abscess back in September....Was in fact an abscess. I knew it was, and the doctor didn't do anything at that time to remove it and save her life then. The largest abscess was actually the one pictured in the first post I posted. When I asked the doctor if the largest one was the one I showed her during her follow up appointment in September...She confirmed.
I went at 4 to pick up Honey. Was taken into an exam room to get instructions on meds and what not from the doctor. Something told me to check on Honey. It didn't look like she was breathing at all. Took her to the reception desk and they immediately took her to the back. I went back into the exam room. Remembered I didn't have Honey's meds with me that I took this morning for her to get. I was told they were in the back with her on the table. Honey in fact did stop breathing. Went bck to the exam room bawling my eyes out. After an hour of doing CPR, having her hooked up to oxygen, and using norepinephrine....She didn't make it. My baby girl passed away. She is sadly and unfortunately no longer with me. I am taking it hard. Her last ride home was the same way we went EVERYWHERE....in my jacket. She was wrapped in the towel that they had given me. That was her last ride home. When the doctor bought her into the exam room...the doctor asked me if I wanted her on the exam table or if I wanted. I told the doctor I wanted her. I cuddled her, kissed her, told her I love her, and told her I am sorry for letting her down. She fought the anesthesia. The doctor had to do an injection of the anesthesia via vain in her tail. The anesthesia was mild enough that it wouldn't affect her liver at all considering all that she had going on. Honey knew if she went under....She wasn't going to come home. I miss her sooo much. I have never lost a child before, but if I had to imagine the pain...I would say loosing Honey was like loosing a child. Thank-you all for everything and for all of your support.
By the way....the largest of the abscesses that I was told was NOT an abscess back in September....Was in fact an abscess. I knew it was, and the doctor didn't do anything at that time to remove it and save her life then. The largest abscess was actually the one pictured in the first post I posted. When I asked the doctor if the largest one was the one I showed her during her follow up appointment in September...She confirmed.
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I just walked into my room and instead of looking at me, Swordtail's eyes darted directly to the ice cream drumstick I'm holding