Please advise - won’t eat Veggies OR bugs

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BrightStar

Hatchling Member
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I’ve tried to do some research, and all I’ve found so far is that reptiles can be infected with West Nile virus. I know I posted here in regards to Rygel’s lack of appetite, but after having a long consultation with the vet when we rushed him in on Thursday, we discovered that many things that I had thought of over the past nine months or so as merely quirks could have been symptoms - like him knuckling his feet, falling off of his basking log, and trying to walk off of my hand into thin air. He didn’t do this constantly, or even everyday, so I just thought my guy was being a weirdy beardie.

If you are able to find any additional research, I’d be pleased to read over it.

The vet said necropsy results could take some weeks. The actual necropsy will take place in a few days, so probably Monday or Tuesday. At that time, they will provide my vet with a gross report, which basically will explain their findings on just examining him when they open him up. But our vet doesn’t think that will come back with much useful information. She said they will take samples of various things and look at them under a microscope. Then they would have to write up the next report and send it to her.

Today has been extremely difficult. The morning was especially hard because getting him up and out for his morning cuddle have been something I’ve done every single day since I got him in October 2016. I couldn’t cope with seeing his cage there, empty... waiting for him to go back in. We shut off the lights, but that just made it worse because I’ve become so attuned to lights must be on and temperatures must be right. I’ve ended up putting his roaches and a mint plant in there! Anything to just make it look a bit different.

So many triggers that remind me of him. I opened the refrigerator door last night to get myself some milk, and his veggies were all there, including the baby food and slurry I had made to feed him these past days. In the kitchen, there’s his food dish and calcium and vitamin supplements, and on the table by his cage, the temp gun and solarmeter, plus his night blanket and bed cushion.

I’ve lost pets before, and I’m no stranger to the heartbreak and grief, but I had a bond with Rygel that was unlike anything I’ve had with my other pets. Before we went to say goodbye yesterday, I sobbed and wailed and probably frightened my poor husband, who has never seen me ever as distressed as I have been by Rygel’s loss. He has been my rock and so patient, understanding and compassionate through all of this. Rygel hated my husband, so sadly they were never able to develop much of a bond.

I know the pain and despair of losing Rygel will get easier. I’ve been giving thoughts to how I want to memorialise him - I’m thinking a Beardie garden statue somewhere bright and sunny outside, and a memory box where I will keep his favorite blanket, pillow, photos of him, and the more sentimental cage accessories that aren’t too big. Not to sure about the ashes. My husband has suggested making them into some kind of jewelry piece, like a pendant with them in or something. I doubt there’ll be many ashes left from a bearded dragon.
 

Claudiusx

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Drache613":20k7nhf9 said:
Hello,

The vet thinks he may have had west nile virus? I am not sure if I've ever heard of the
virus affecting a bearded dragon but I could definitely research & check that for you.
When will the necropsy results be in, do you know?
I hope you are doing ok today.

Tracie

I did a bunch of research into this this morning actually. I found a couple studies on pubmed in regards to reptiles and WNV, mainly alligators though. While most of the studies did state that they found many alligators with WNV, they haven't found any dead due to it.
There was also a study where they purposely infected a few different reptiles, and an amphibian, and found that they really aren't good carriers for the disease. Here is the link. To view the full doc, you need to download the PDF on the right hand side of the page under "full text links"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14628941

It would lead me to believe that death due to WNV would be highly unlikely. As it seems that even if they are carrying it, they are such poor carriers that the virus really doesn't do anything.

-Brandon
 

Claudiusx

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BrightStar":1bxq211u said:
I know the pain and despair of losing Rygel will get easier. I’ve been giving thoughts to how I want to memorialise him - I’m thinking a Beardie garden statue somewhere bright and sunny outside, and a memory box where I will keep his favorite blanket, pillow, photos of him, and the more sentimental cage accessories that aren’t too big. Not to sure about the ashes. My husband has suggested making them into some kind of jewelry piece, like a pendant with them in or something. I doubt there’ll be many ashes left from a bearded dragon.

That is a beautiful idea! And with the ashes, I like your husbands idea, a little bit of the ash in a pendant or some sort of necklace that you can carry around your neck if you wish.

We know you loved him dearly, and I hate that you have to go through this. But we are still here for you if you need someone to talk to.

-Brandon
 

BrightStar

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Brandon, thank you for sharing that article. After reading it, I agree WNV sounds unlikely. Furthermore, I looked up whether there have been any recorded cases of WNV in my state (Kansas), and couldn’t find any record. I am thinking either ADV or some sort of genetic defect are more likely.

Thank you all for your kind words and support. It has been a huge comfort to be able to come here and be surrounded by people that I know “get it” and understand what it means to lose a beardie. Rygel would have been three tomorrow, so it’s going to be an extra tough day for me coming so soon after he died.
 

Claudiusx

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BrightStar":j40hdgjb said:
Thank you all for your kind words and support. It has been a huge comfort to be able to come here and be surrounded by people that I know “get it” and understand what it means to lose a beardie.

Most people dont understand the types of connections you can make with our dragons. People hear you lost your pet lizard and they think "so what?" But we all know the types of homes they can build in our hearts. I agree, it's nice to be surrounded by people who understand.

This is a great community for that.

-Brandon
 

BrightStar

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
I received word back today on the preliminary results of Rygel’s necropsy. They are suspecting septicemia, though it’s too soon to say for certain, and they have no idea what caused it. They took various tissue samples for closer examination, and are looking particularly at the liver. They are also trying to grow some cultures to look for any kinds of fungus.

Does anyone know anything about septicemia in bearded dragons?
 

Claudiusx

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Hmm that's not what I was expecting but I suppose it fits the bill. Although I wonder if the body simply got contaminated postmortem. but I'm sure they'd be able to differentiate between postmortem development and preexisting.

Is there anything you can think of that happened in the past month or so that could have led to an infection?

-Brandon
 

BrightStar

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Rygel’s symptoms had been going on since around November of last year. Back then, his appetite became unpredictable . He wouldn’t eat for several days, and then he’d gobble down all his bugs. A few weeks later, the same cycle started all over. I thought at first brumation, and later when Rygel seemed otherwise to be acting normally, i thought he was just being a weirdie beardie, maybe holding out for butter worms or hornworms.

The most recent thing that happened was I took him to the vet. They said when I took him for the checkup that they had concerns, so he must have already been ill.

Prior to that, there was an incident back in June when he fell off the top of the armchair and landed in trash can. But Rygel seemed annoyed that he fell, but after a cuddle he was fine, no sign on injury, distress or change in behavior.

I did adjust the height of his UVB back in October. I since learned UVB levels may have been too high, but Rygel had a good gradient and at the time, he could have moved around on his basking area to adjust how much UVB he got. I know he was a bit stressed that the light was moved inside the cage rather than on top of the mesh lid, but I don’t recall him totally freaking out about it or anything.
 

BrightStar

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
I received an update today on Rygel’s necropsy report.

The results were unfortunately inconclusive.

They found coelomitis and massive sepsis in the heart, lungs, liver and kidneys.

The kidneys were found to have a lot of scarring.

They found candida in the liver.

The dr couldn’t explain or even begin to offer any kind of idea as to how this happened. Tests for salmonella and ADV came back negative.

Anyone have any ideas?
 

Claudiusx

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So then what do they have to say about the coelomitis? As far as I'm aware you need egg making capabilities to suffer from a disease that relates to the egg making process..

Unless I'm wrong in my understanding of what coelomitis is. Which by the way, isnt out of the realm of possibility lol. It's a pretty rare condition I've not seen it personally come up here before.

-Brandon
 

BrightStar

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Perhaps I got the word wrong?

I’ve never heard of the word before the vet mentioned it today. I may have misheard, but when I asked her for details she explained that it was inflammation of the abdominal cavity . Coelumitis is the closest I could find to what I thought she called it. She said something about how reptiles don’t have the same physiology as other animals and this coellium was all that separated the abdominal area from other parts of the body.

I tried looking up Candida in the liver, and coelumitis but I’m not getting anywhere. Very frustrating. The dr said she’d consult next Monday with a senior doctor, and also we are still waiting on a few more pathology results, but she really couldn’t give me any answers.
 

Claudiusx

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Ok.

I'm sorry you haven't got any real answers yet. I'm eager to hear and I can only imagine you are so much more.

Hopefully once done consulting with the senior vet we will get some answers.

Maybe Tracie will have a better guess at what the vet might have been talking about.

On another note, I hope you've been doing ok!

-Brandon
 
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