Please advise - won’t eat Veggies OR bugs

[BrightStar]

I have the same feeling too. But they seem convinced after his physical exam that he is sick.

The medication they gave him was ceftiofur (100mg / ml). Dosage was 0.15ml.

Anyone ever heard of this one?

They did not consult with me about giving him the antibiotic. Though based on how they made out he seemed so abnormal and unwell, I’d probably have been scared into agreeing to let them inject him if I had been asked. They said something about a lot of it leaking out because of too much space due to skin wrinkles.

Is there anything I can do to calm him down?

What about the water issue? I don’t really see what benefit leaving a dish in his cage would provide, since he doesn’t recognise standing water. The dr seemed to think he would drinkmfrom it given the option. I know baths aren’t going to hydrate him, unless he drinks from then. He only does that occasionally. Yesterday I gave him a long bath and he didn’t swallow a drop. Then I gave him water from an eye dropper and he drank like he hadn’t seen water in months(even though his last drink was two days ago).

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is your dragon doing today? That is too bad your vet gave him antibiotics without knowing
for sure whether or not he has any infection.
That particular medication is essentially Ceftz which is pretty commonly used.
It really seems like he has been partially brumating anyway. When were the blood tests going
to be in?
Is he still black bearding right now?
I would be interested to see what his calcium levels are though, along with uric acid & AST levels,
too. He does look healthy from the picture though & actually gained some weight which without
eating much of anything is surprising.
I agree, have you gotten the UVI levels a little lower for him? That could affect him & his desire
to eat & bask. They wont bask if it is too intense or if they aren't able to get out of it very well.

Tracie

 

[BrightStar]

The dr called today with his blood results, and everything came back normal. They were also able to run a feacal test on the sample I gave them, and everything came back normal on that, too.

Rygel still isn’t quite himself. He tried to run away when I went to offer him his salad earlier. He hasn’t done that since the very first day I got him when he was a baby . Later, I picked him up and gave him a drink from a eye dropper. The vet wants me to bathe him, but I know he doesn’t usually drink his bath water and it would just upset him so I don’t see the benefit of doing that. After his drink, I offered him some repashy grub pie, but he wasn’t interested. I sat with him a while and tried just bonding , we watched cartoons and I sang to him. His beard was less black afterwards, so I think I soothed him a little.

The dr wants me to put a water dish in his cage. I did as they asked, though it practically doubled the humidity in less than three hours, and there wasn’t even that much water in the bowl ! Rygel wasn’t interested in it.

He spent a fair amount of time today hiding in his cave. We moved his UVB so now his levels are around 03 - 05. We have a probe set up on a thermostat for both the hot and cold side, but it’s been a while since I checked his heating gradient. We found that whilst it’s 107 on his basking spot, the area is actually very small and there’s as much as 15 or 20 degree drop less than a few inches from where his basking area is. This could mean that he is only partially able to bask as part of him isn’t hot enough.

We moved his heat dome a bit, and set up an additional CHE bulb to help extend the heat . He got very distressed by even this little change. I noticed that later when he’d calmed down, he was actually gaping whilst basking, which is something I’ve rarely seen him do recently. Yet, when I take him outdoors he always wants to bask and gape. The vet said that he got very active when he was there in the incubator, so I’m starting to think is the issue simply a problem of inadequate gradient / not a large enough basking area? I ordered him a larger dome to try to offer him a wider area of heat.

Based on all this, I’m reluctant to take him back for his follow up next Thursday. They still want to give him that second antibiotic shot, which I’m very discouraged from allowing, and the stress of it all seems cruel on Rygel if there’s nothing else they can do for him.

 

[Claudiusx]

I would ask for a copy of the blood results and post them up here.

The fact that they state the blood results came back normal should have stopped them from wanting to do another antibiotic dose.

What type of bulb are you using for the basking bulb. You are right some bulbs tend to put out fairly narrow heat beams. The addition of the che should help. If you can get an area about 4 inches wide or the size of your fist to all be in a good temp range, that would be ideal.

Just to reiterate, I really think that he might just be fine, just a bit stressed out at the moment. At least based off of how he seems and his weight gain. And with no parasites...
But it would be best to get a copy of the blood test just for a second opinion here.

-Brandon

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How are things with your dragon today?
I would be happy to review the blood tests for you if you would like. Did they give
another antibiotic shot? I hope not because it doesn't seem like he really needs one.
Oh ok, so they haven't given another shot yet, that's good.
Is his beard still black or has it gone back to normal?
That is very good news his fecal is fine also!
It is a possibility that he is simply trying to do a seasonal slowdown as so many of them
tend to do.
Your setup sounds good & so do the temperatures. As long as he has ample areas to go
in order to escape heat & or UVB then everything should be in order for him right now.

Tracie

 

[beaniethebeardie]

I have the same feeling too. But they seem convinced after his physical exam that he is sick.

The medication they gave him was ceftiofur (100mg / ml). Dosage was 0.15ml.

Anyone ever heard of this one?

They did not consult with me about giving him the antibiotic. Though based on how they made out he seemed so abnormal and unwell, I’d probably have been scared into agreeing to let them inject him if I had been asked. They said something about a lot of it leaking out because of too much space due to skin wrinkles.

Is there anything I can do to calm him down?

What about the water issue? I don’t really see what benefit leaving a dish in his cage would provide, since he doesn’t recognise standing water. The dr seemed to think he would drinkmfrom it given the option. I know baths aren’t going to hydrate him, unless he drinks from then. He only does that occasionally. Yesterday I gave him a long bath and he didn’t swallow a drop. Then I gave him water from an eye dropper and he drank like he hadn’t seen water in months(even though his last drink was two days ago).

My beardie struggles to notice standing water too. I rehomed him when he was 2 yrs and his previous owner never taught him to drink from a bowl, so I can't put one in in case he uses it as a toilet, etc. I put him in the bath once every two or three days and he tends to drink a fair bit from there. If I don't think he's drinking enough, though, I put a drop of water from my finger onto the end of his nose. It's a trick I read somewhere- beardies can't resist licking it! Mine wouldn't drink at all when I first got him, until I put a drop on his nose and he licked it off, then got a taste for it and started drinking the bathwater.

 

[BrightStar]

I’m using a GE Lighting 66286 Energy-Efficient Halogen 90-Watt (120-watt replacement) 1900-Lumen PAR38 Floodlight Bulb with Medium Base. ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007V92OUM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

Today Rygel does not seem like himself at all. His beard is dark black, and he is bobbing his head, puffing out his beard and gaping at anything and anyone. He won’t stay in his basking area. He was up front of his cage, which usually means that he wants out. But when I opened the cage door, he started gaping at me and getting angry.

He has also been leaning his head a lot .

He isn’t doing this constantly, but he is doing it a lot. Is it just that antibiotic shot making him feel lousy?

I’d be happy to post his blood results. At the moment, I’m having a hard time getting them! I have to speak to someone in records office, ad so far, no one has answered the phone. I left a message so hoping they’ll call back.

 

[BrightStar]

Sorry for the double post, but Rygel’s condition has taken a very severe turn. Not long after my previous post, I heard nose coming from his cage like he was moving around a lot. This is unusual for him to be so noisy, so I went to check on him.

What I saw was horrific. He was running frantically around his cage, bumping into everything, falling over, rolling onto his back and and rolling from side to side. We rushed him to the emergency vet. Their prognosis was not good. The dr said he looks like a very sick dragon, and his clinical signs have worsened a lot since Tuesday. They kept him in overnight to try to rehydrate him and get some more bloods. There’s talk of possibly ADV , brain tumour, viral or fungal infection or some sort of genetic abnormality. They’re looking into giving him an MRI or CT scan in the morning, but I’ve been warned that even with all testing, we might not get a definitive answer and in the meantime he could get sicker and more distressed.

 

[Claudiusx]

I'm sorry. They are right sometimes we just dont have the answers and we dont get the answers. I truly hope this isnt the case though. They are tough creatures. Good at hiding illness but also tough enough to fight back!

Hope we receive good news in the morning. I'm sure you are very worried. We are here for you two.

-Brandon

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor boy! It really sounds like he has gotten worse, since he was medicated. I am wondering
if his kidneys are doing alright? Do you have a copy of the blood test results I could see or you
could post here on the forum?
I am so sorry, it does look like he is very distressed. Try to keep him comfortable as much as
you can tonight. Do you have a ceramic heat emitter or a heating pad you could use to keep
him a little warmer?
Do you know exactly how much antibiotic he received in the shot when he got it?

Let us know how things are going. I am moving your thread over to the ER forum area, as it is
a lot more serious right now.

Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from Feeding to Beardie ER

 

[Claudiusx]

Crossing my fingers for today.

-Brandon

 

[BrightStar]

I’m still waiting on an update from the vet today.

Rygel was kept in overnight, because when I took him in he was breathing very hard and was very distressed. At least this time we got a really competent seeming vet. She went over very thoroughly what’s been happening with Rygel since his loss of appetite started and we started to realise that a lot of Rygel’s quirks may have been symptoms of a disease. As well as his appetite being non-existent (though he must still have been eating wild bugs because he pooped) he had also started knuckling his feet, and losing his balance. Rygel is my first dragon, so I always thought he was just clumsy as he seemed of good weight, and was active and alert. Then he would occasionally walk off of something (like my hand) and onto nothing but air, like he didn’t realize there was nothing to walk on. More recently this past week, he seemed to not understand that he needed to open his mouth fully to eat, so I’d offer him baby food, which he clearly seemed to like, but didn’t seem to know how to eat it.

I’m thinking Rygel might have adenovirus(ADV) —- is that possible? I’ll try to post blood results as soon as I get them. Last night, the vet implied we would probably have to put him to sleep. This is devastating - we only took him on Tuesday to check his lack of appetite wasn’t causing any health problems, now they’re talking about putting him to sleep?! Can animals with ADV that cause symptoms like Rygel’s lead any kind of “normal” life? I don’t mind if he is a special needs dragon. I’ll do what it takes. I miss my beardie cuddles already. I just want him to be happy. He will be three years in three days.

I got him from dynamitedragonsden. I noticed their site is no longer active - anyone know if this is a sign that there were problems with their dragons?

 

[Claudiusx]

ADV is a possibility, they should test for it at the vet. Typically it would cause major issues as a baby, or lay basically dormant until later in life. Lots of dragons with ADV end up living semi-normal lives with just symptom management as the goal. Tracie is a wealth of knowledge on ADV, so I'll let her be the one to get into it with you.

In regards to the breeder question, I haven't heard of that breeder before but that doesn't mean anything really. Lots of breeders end up only being in the game for a few years before stopping. And most breeders don't test their colonies for ADV.

-Brandon

 

[BrightStar]

I spoke to the vet a few hours ago. Rygel had another seizure at 6:30am this morning. The dr felt he had been showing some improvement prior to that, but since the seizure they are having problems controlling his symptoms. They ruled out a calcium issue because they did two different types of calcium tests, and both came back normal. The vet thinks it unlikely to be ADV because his liver is fine. Since the seizure this morning, he has started stargazing and developed twitching and nystagmus (uncontrolled movement of the eyes).

We agreed to go ahead with an MRI scan, though he’s going downhill so fast they’re warning us to expect the worst. MRI results are likely only going to help us be at peace with having to make a hard decision, though it’s possible they’ll show an infection or something treatable. They recommended not doing an ADV test because it takes a few weeks for results, and if it came back positive the recommendation would be to put him to sleep. I’m sorry I don’t have actual blood results to post here. This is all so stressful and overwhelming, and I was near hysterical when talking to the vet. I forgot to ask.