Phoenix worms? Please reply!

[cwj93]

Hello. Well after a few days of Aussie refusing to eat his crickets I finally found out why. He is just a picky eater. He will only eat about 2 or 3 crickets that I dust with calcium powder and then he refuses to eat any more. However he will eat 10 - 15 more crickets right after that if they're not dusted with calcium. I assume he just doesn't like the taste of the calcium powder. I'll hold a dusted cricket in front of him and he will turn up his nose, but if I offer one that is not dusted he'll snatch it right out of my hand.

This makes me worried that I'm not going to be able to give him enough calcium that he really needs. I've read that phoenix worms are very high in calcium. So I was wondering if one of his daily servings was phoenix worms, if that would be the equivalent of one serving of calcium dusted crickets.

If so, my plan is to give him one serving of phoenix worms every day, and then his other servings will be crickets that aren't dusted. Also, he normally eats about 10 - 20 crickets per serving, so how many phoenix worms would I have to give him to be equivalent to 10 - 20 crickets? Should I let him eat as many worms as he wants in a 5 - 10 minute period just like I do with the crickets? Also, what about D3? Does he need the D3 that is in the powder but not in the phoenix worms?

If for some reason this idea wouldn't work, how else can I give him calcium? Also, I know that at least 2 times a week I will have to get him to eat a serving of multivitamin dusted crickets, so hopefully he'll be cooperative lol.

 

[cwj93]

Anyone?

 

[Dr. Phoenix]

cwj93,
Phoenix Worms are a calcium-rich feeder but the reason they are an excellent staple food is because they offer BALANCED nutrition (a perfect ratio of Ca). Crickets and other feeders must be dusted with calcium before serving to try to achieve a balance because their phosphorus levels are so high. Serving crickets without dusting will cause calcium to be leached from the bones of your dragon and this causes MBD...wobbly jaws, difficulty walking, misshapen joints, etc. Phoenix Worms must not be expected to provide extra calcium or serve as a supplement so that you can serve crickets "naked." That is not their purpose and that will not work. To be clear, whenever you feed an insect that is high in phosphorus, you MUST dust with calcium so that Ca levels are in balance. Phoenix Worms should be fed right from the cup--no dusting.

Craig Sheppard, Ph.D.
President, Insect Science Resource LLC
Professor Emeritus, UGA
http://www.phoenixworm.com

 

[cwj93]

Okay thanks for the information. I think I'll go ahead and start feeding him phoenix worms still in addition to his crickets. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get him to eat the calcium dusted crickets? Should I just take them out of his diet all together if he refuses to eat them when they are dusted? Also, how many phoenix worms should he get per feeding? Can he eat only phoenix worms and greens?

 

[Bballglass12]

cwj93,
Phoenix Worms are a calcium-rich feeder but the reason they are an excellent staple food is because they offer BALANCED nutrition (a perfect ratio of Ca). Crickets and other feeders must be dusted with calcium before serving to try to achieve a balance because their phosphorus levels are so high. Serving crickets without dusting will cause calcium to be leached from the bones of your dragon and this causes MBD...wobbly jaws, difficulty walking, misshapen joints, etc. Phoenix Worms must not be expected to provide extra calcium or serve as a supplement so that you can serve crickets "naked." That is not their purpose and that will not work. To be clear, whenever you feed an insect that is high in phosphorus, you MUST dust with calcium so that Ca levels are in balance. Phoenix Worms should be fed right from the cup--no dusting.

Craig Sheppard, Ph.D.
President, Insect Science Resource LLC
Professor Emeritus, UGA
http://www.phoenixworm.com

That was extremely helpful information. Thank you for sharing.

 

[cwj93]

Okay thanks for the information. I think I'll go ahead and start feeding him phoenix worms still in addition to his crickets. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get him to eat the calcium dusted crickets? Should I just take them out of his diet all together if he refuses to eat them when they are dusted? Also, how many phoenix worms should he get per feeding? Can he eat only phoenix worms and greens?

Can anyone answer these last few questions I have?

 

[Topper]

Okay thanks for the information. I think I'll go ahead and start feeding him phoenix worms still in addition to his crickets. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get him to eat the calcium dusted crickets? Should I just take them out of his diet all together if he refuses to eat them when they are dusted? Also, how many phoenix worms should he get per feeding? Can he eat only phoenix worms and greens?

Can anyone answer these last few questions I have?

My understanding is this
Eating crickets - possibly skip a feeding and then offer him only dusted ones. We had good success putting him in a smaller container with the crickets so he didn't have to hunt them around his tank, but he never cared much whether they were dusted or not.

Taking them out entirely - Well, you can't use non-dusted crickets as the only food source, but the occasional cricket with other food isn't going to hurt him. Just depends on if you want to keep going through the motions of maintaining them or not.

How many - as many as he feels like eating in 15 minutes or so is the general idea. They are smaller than large crickets, think a slice of filet mignon vs. a bag of beef jerky. My beardie generally maxed out at around 16 larges (and that was all he wanted all day) and now eats 25+ phoenix worms regularly.

Only phoenix & greens - Yep, as far as I know phoenix worms have all the nutrients needed to be a staple. A varied diet of greens will help too.

 

[JeepMiller09]

From reading all the post I could stop giving my bd crickets and instead feed him phoenix worms 30 a day 15 in the morning and 15 in the afternoon like I feed him now with crickets? If how how hard is it to keep them alive? A batch of 400 would last, e a month.

 

[BeardieGrandma]

Phoenix worms keep really easy. They just sit in their container and you can keep them in a drawer nearby. Crickets smell, get out and make your spouse mad at you, and are generally grosser than handling worms (not sure how that came to be true for me LOL). I ordered 400 about 3 weeks ago and feed my 3 month old about 12 worms in the morning, then he eats his dusted crickets (as many as he wants), then the same in the evening (only dust once a day).

as far as trying to get your lizard to eat dusted crickets, it seems if they get hungry enough, they'll eat...I keep changing up our baby's food so he doesn't get picky as I can see how he can have the tendency (they get spoiled so easily ).

good luck!

 

[littlebirdy]

From reading all the post I could stop giving my bd crickets and instead feed him phoenix worms 30 a day 15 in the morning and 15 in the afternoon like I feed him now with crickets? If how how hard is it to keep them alive? A batch of 400 would last, e a month.

This is what I am thinking of doing with my brand new little dude, Bowser. It sounds like the worms are much more bang for your buck and easier to keep as well. I have a cricket carrier and cricket food, so what I will probably do is use mostly worms and then change it up with crickets between batches. As far as I can tell, it is fine to use phoenix worms as a staple.

 

[rowena]

So then, it would be ok just to feed your guys Phoenix Worms, and no crickets? I hate crickets. And I didn't know they where high in P and that was why you had to dust them.