Paralysis, thoughts?

[jnwc82]

Hello!

I was finally able to sit down and figure out the issues with uploading photos from my phone. Here are the xray images from Dani's first vet visit.

I hope they will be helpful with any suggestions. At this time, Dani has vomited a little more and had her first BM out of water (Packaged, refrigerated, ready for vet Monday morning).
After her hard time with the vomiting and BM, I gave her a warm bath. During her bath she kept stiffening up. Her tummy felt hard like she was flexing it. Her tummy was still pliable and I massaged it, didn't feel anything odd. She kept her spine stiff and kind of cupped... (for lack of better term). She has also started pulling her sides in if touched on her back. Also, she now takes a deep, breath puffs a little, then makes a frog sound. I don't hear any wheezing or popping when she breathes.

Dani seems to take a step forward then two back. We are still hopeful for recovery but now we are just at a loss. We are currently looking for an ER that has an exotic vet on staff just in case we need to take her in.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Wow, look at all of those eggs! They are clearly visible to me, on those x-rays.
How is Dani doing tonight, has she kept her food down?
Poor girl, she must be uncomfortable though. Do they know if the eggs have dropped yet
or not? It doesn't look like they have to me, but a little hard to tell.
I hope she doesn't vomit anymore & stabilizes. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

 

[jnwc82]

Tracie,

Wait... Eggs? My vet said he didn't see any. He also said some could be there, if they were not calcified then they wouldn't show up clearly.

Ok, so if we are definitely dealing with eggs then here is where we are...
Dani refused food and water last night, we decided to not force her as she looked so uncomfortable. I'm afraid we are going to cause her to aspirate or seriously hurt her by forcing things down her throat.

Now questons!
Tracie, could the development of eggs be causing the issue with Dani vomiting? What can we do to make her more comfortable? Is there anything we can do to help her get the eggs out?

Thank you so much for your replies and advice!

 

[AHBD]

First thing I thought as soon as I saw it, yes looks like eggs. Poor girl, this is not good. Calcium shot might help her as well as sub-q fluids, and like you said , don't force her to eat . Keep her as stress free as possible.

 

[jnwc82]

Hello AHBD,
Thank you for your advice!

Update:
I gave Dani her calcium syrup this morning and offered her some apple baby food with added water, she said no to food. She seemed very lethargic, she would only open her eyes after I was able to get some medicine in her mouth. About half way through she took a deep breath, puffed up, and closed her eyes. She finished her medicine though. I will keep offering her baby food every hour or so in the hopes of her eating some.

Dani not eating has me more concerned than anything. In the short time she has been with us she has proven that eating is her one passion in life. At first, she thought fingers were food too so we had to be extra careful when handling her.

My boyfriend and I agree it is time to make an appointment with another vet. I found a list of vets posted here and was shocked to find a specialist within 30 minutes of my home. My boyfriend will be taking her in the morning.

Again, thank you all for your help with Dani.

 

[jnwc82]

Good morning!

It is update time!

We thought we almost lost Dani last night. After her bath, she started to froth at the mouth and drooling. We tilted her forward and helped her get everything out until she started breathing again. It was so horrible for her, it was the first time in all of this she fully black bearded. Once we were sure everything was out of her mouth, we got her back into her nice warm tank. We kept the temp about 82 degrees and soon her black beard receded.

At this point we are sure we are dealing with a respiratory infection of some kind. My boyfriend took Dani to the specialist this morning who did xrays, fecal swab, probe, and what my boyfriend called "the most invasive exam a dragon could receive without surgery, I was embarrassed for her!". The Doctor said she is a very healthy dragon going through a very rough pregnancy. He said he could only see the shadows of the eggs in the xray but confirmed their existence with the exam.

Doc stated Dani is not currently paralyzed, her clutch is just causing her enough pain that she refuses to move. Doc wants Dani to live the next several days in a lay box with soft topsoil (we will be converting her tank so that she will still have all of her bulbs). Doc said she will figure out a way to lay the eggs and if she does not lay them by the end of the week then we should contact a surgeon who will remove them and spay her at the same time. Dani's file has already been faxed over to the surgeon and we have been in contact.

Doc also addressed our concern with last night's episode. Dani does not have an infection and her lungs are clear. He said the eggs are putting so much pressure on her stomach that she will continue to throw up anything in her stomach. He told us to just keep helping her when she does vomit so that it doesn't get caught in her lungs.

We are to continue with the calcium syrup but in smaller doses for the time being. we are also supposed to continue offering her food in the chance the eggs shift. Lastly, we are to keep giving her evening baths for hydration, but not to soak her for more than 10 minutes a night.

Please keep sending good vibes, thoughts and/or prayers along with any suggestions or advice to help her through this.

Dani and her slaves thank you all so much!

 

[CooperDragon]

That sounds rough. I agree with the vet in that if she isn't able to pass the eggs it might be worth doing surgery to remove them. It's sometimes necessary in cases where they have a tough time either developing or passing the eggs. The risk of infection if they burst or rot is pretty risky. Hopefully she can pass them without further issue though.

 

[jnwc82]

Thank you CooperDragon. We are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.

So, Slave #2 took Dani home after seeing the doctor then painstakingly microwaved bowl after bowl of topsoil until he had enough for Dani's tank.

Dani in her in-home lay box!

Now we wait...

 

[EllenD]

Yeah, that's what I thought too, and you're telling me that the first vet didn't recognize the eggs in that x-ray? That's not a good sign, lol...Wow, unbelievable.

The good news is that she wasn't egg-bound, I saw the x-ray and then started reading "We almost lost Dani last night, she vomited..." and the first thing I thought was she had become egg-bound. So the good news is that she has no infection, she didn't reabsorb the follicles, which would cause other issues that are awful, and she's not egg bound, so this is all good. What a rough thing for her to go through all this time, I can't believe that first vet took that x-ray and didn't tell you she had eggs again, I saw your response to Tracie's post of "Wait...eggs?" and couldn't believe it. Wonders never cease.

It sounds like this new vet is on the ball, and I agree that spaying her is the best thing to do so this doesn't keep happening to her. Keep us posted, we're all routing for her!

 

[jnwc82]

Thank you EllenD!

We are happy to have a definitive diagnosis and plan of action. We plan on making her as comfy as possible will as little stress as possible. As far as the first vet, we were very disappointed to find out that he did not know what he was talking about. The clinic is listed as a reputable place for reptiles and there is even a specialist listed as working there. The kicker, she isn't there.

The vet Dani saw today was great and even stated he would like to perform the surgery for Dani but cannot as his current clinic is not set up for it. Instead he referred us to another vet in the city. We have done our research on the new vet and he sounds wonderful. If we have to take Dani in for emergency surgery, I am glad it will be him. Dani will be seeing him for surgery anyway as those ovaries must go!

I wonder if a bearded dragon gains weight after being spayed. Cats and dogs do... Hmmm... Chubby Dani...

 

[AHBD]

I wonder if she's sick because she actually has a egg that burst. I've had 20 years worth of gravid females, not one ever vomited not even the youngest + smallest or the one that laid 9 cluthches in a row , almost 300 eggs. There just seems to be something going on.

 

[jnwc82]

Hi AHBD!

The new vet said the eggs are pressing into her stomach causing her to vomit. The boyfriend (aka Beardie Slave 2) asked about possible complications from ruptured eggs and said the vet said Dani didn't show those symptoms. From the looks of her today versus a few days ago, the bulge of her stomach has moved down a bit. In the hopes of a shift in pressure, she ate a small dubia this afternoon. So far, so good. Dani has even started to move around in her tank. We are hoping to hear from the vet who will be doing her surgery tomorrow, we didn't hear from him today.

Will keep the updates coming!

 

[AHBD]

Yes, it's common knowledge that the eggs press on the stomach, that's why they almost all stop eating a few days before laying and then start scratching for a laying site.

So she is going to be spayed ? I'll look forward to the updates....hoping Dani's going to be O.K. Poor girl, going through a lot, isn't she ?

 

[jnwc82]

Hello everyone,

We took Dani to the vet today for surgery. After an exam, he felt surgery was not advisable until we get her stronger. He confirmed MBD, ruled out parasites (none on fecal), and sent off for an adenovirus test. The vet will be keeping her for a couple of days to monitor and if he feels she can make it through surgery with a good chance of survival he will continue. He plans on confirming the development of the eggs and how far along they are, he said we could buy more time to get her stronger if they are not ready to go. Also, the vomiting is because she was on a dose of calcionate that was too high for her.

So, here is where we are:
Calcium deficiency + chronically gravid = MBD
MBD + too much Calcionate = vomiting beardie
vomiting beardie + highly worried people = finding a vet who has been working with bearded dragons since they were introduced in Houston straight from Australia.

Now we start waiting... again. Her tank looks so empty. We can't wait for her to come back home and start recovery.

 

[AHBD]

Yeah, I thought she was too weak from all this. Best wishes to poor Dani. The females always have the roughest time when they get ll like this. I know you're super worried and my heart goes out to you !