No - we will NOT skip a day of feeding NOR limit his food :/

[WolfMama]

So, am I right WolfMama... did you mean we should always give them the OPTION to eat every day, barring certain circumstances? And did you mean veggies and/OR live feeders?

Thank you for the reply, xtinaBeardieMom! Indeed you are correct! I was most definitely not referring to force feeding in any way (and to be clear, I am certainly FOR force feeding when it is needed! We’ve had to do it ourselves, for cats and guinea pigs. It’s not easy to do, emotionally, - you look into their eyes and sometimes they understand and sometimes they don’t - you do feel so badly when they do not want it - and we comfort them every way we can – stroke and love them and talk to them. I certainly would never advocate force feeding a healthy beardie I was, as you’ve explained, referring to denying a healthy beardie food (<in droning voice> for any reason other then medical).

And, yes, I agree with you, as I did say in the OP “I realize when they are adults their feeding changes, and you can put out a salad once a day - but the 1x day comments were for baby dragons! “ and as you saw, I reinforced in reply the 75% - 80% ratio of vegetable for adults, I was certainly not stating that an adult beardie should be fed live as their primary staple above vegetables From what I’ve read, they should only be offered the live 1x / day. When we reach that stage, I will see where it takes us depending on how he progresses in his eating. I’ve actually found that following his lead has been the best way I foresee, at this time, offering a nice salad during the day, and the crickets as the evening food. But, that schedule can vary from beardie to beardie - but as I began in the OP and topic header, we will NEVER deny him food for any day – and it upsets me greatly upsets me that people advocate this – and I do mean advocate (unless, we must for health/medical reasons – I think I’m going to put that on my scrap board to just paste each time. LOL!)

I know of someone who fed their bearded dragon one cricket a day for a year I have no idea where they got that misinformation – nor how the bearded dragon survived, but it was not without health problems. The person does love their bearded dragon. Again, pet shop misinformation.

At any rate, it is very sad that anyone would feel that skipping a day, feeding a bearded dragon 5x a week, or every other day, is no big deal.

Yes, indeed I said salad, repeatedly, and that the needs were different for an adult. Thank you for helping to clarify that

I was going to include some of my quotes, but you already know all of this, obviously I can tend to be both analytical (as a result in thesis writings) as well as type talk (being a fast typist.). Not always desirable in posts. LOL. But, in the case of my recent replies to those in question, I was being redundant out of necessity. LOL.

I just, today, came across a post from a couple of weeks ago: viewtopic.php?p=1456041
Entitled: Wouldn't 60 to 100 crickets a day be overfeeding?

I’m glad the OP came HERE to ask those questions! I, too, had no idea that a small beardie would eventually need that much. It was not addressed in the articles, youtube, or books I’d reviewed. They pet shops most certainly do not tell people who are going to take these critters home what their needs will become. If they did, less would be “sold,” as it can become costly. I’m thrilled we adopted our beardie! So, it does not matter. But, I’m a different type of person and we will do what we need to. Not everyone can do that. And it’s very sad when that happens, and I’m sure very difficult for many people (of course, far too many do not care – but I know many do and it is so very painful to them when this happens My heart goes out to anyone in that situation. I know what it is like to struggle to get the funds for vet bills, etc.

But that OP is not alone (I would have replied, but I see it is not continuing - excellent advice was already given and elaboration not needed ), and when you have people on Youtube and in “articles” recommending skipping days, and suggest overfeeding on staple necessities (such as crickets in babies, or underfeeding crickets in adults – or denying adults of a daily salad ) some can fall prey to the very suggestion.

Right before I posted my OP, we even had a PET SHOP tell us that we could SKIP a day here and there! I was so very upset, knowing this is being suggested to people. He’s so very hungry when it comes time for his food! I’m very glad someone here (I need to see who that was) suggested 3x a day in one of my threads. The very thought of this little beardie not being fed for a day upsets me tremendously! And it would do so as well when he is an adult. (now if he’s not hungry for a day, I’ll be checking all the threads, and maybe even posting. LOL. However I’ve already read that this can be normal behavior.)

Interestingly, I asked about “hibernation” when we adopted him. I was told they do not hibernate. Granted, they don’t hibernate, but they DO brumate, and they didn’t know that, either. IMO, that’s something important that people would need to know for when they are bigger.

The first time I read that people limit their food to stunt their growth, I was shocked. I’ve heard this several times, since – and even know of someone whose pet shop recommended it.

Again, it just is heart wrenching to see any critter denied food, and that people suggest that this is acceptable under normal circumstances – it’s difficult when it is necessary - to know that some take it so callously is so very … as I’ve said, upsetting.

I’m so sorry about your beardie! I hope he is okay! Please let me know how he is doing!

It’s nice to know that critical care is available for beardies. I’m curious, do you need a vet’s script for it? We haven’t needed it in a while, but Oxbow’s critical care was wonderful for our guinea pigs, when they needed it. At one time it required a vets authorization. Is it by the same company? Is it the same that is used for herbivores? I’m curious as we always kept some in our home in case of emergencies.

Thanks, again, xtinabeardiemom! I appreciate the support and understanding for my feelings and views in the opening post!

 

[WolfMama]

my baby will only eat once a day ive tried getting him to eat more he just wont. im gana start force feeding baby food but i know how you feel it worries me that hes not eating

Apologies, VeggieLoven. I just saw your reply. I know how worrisome tht can be. Did you start a thread on that? How old is your baby? How long have you had him? Please do start a thread and include all of the husbandry information, if you haven’t already

When we first brought our beardie home, his appetite began to decline. After a couple of weeks, it picked back up, again. At first we only fed him 2x a day, and he didn’t always eat every meal, either. I do think that 3x is better, as their tummies are so very tiny. When someone first mentioned 3x a day, I didn’t initially begin to do that as he didn’t have much of an appetite and didn’t eat a third time the few times we offered. But, I’d tell people to offer anyway as you don’t know when that will kick in. Thankfully, we realized when he jumped down to his eating spot one afternoon as I waslked past his viv, as if to say… “um, hungry…” It was very cute I’m just glad we realized, and that he did that in order to communicate his need to us Something so simple can be so overlooked.

After a few weeks, his appetite increased and from there it increased each day to the point where he now eats between 55 and 75 crickets a day at 2.5 months. I’m not saying every beardie will do that They are not clones of each other

I hope his appetite increases soon.

 

[arp111]

I am new to the forums (not a big poster)
I had a separate question and saw this
I don't see how anyone can not feed their beardie (or any other living creature) daily.
It is cruel to not feed a beardies (or any other living creature) daily.
They may not eat, but you have to offer fresh food daily.
They can't jump out of their viv and grab a snack when they get hungry,
my beardie is just starting to eat his veggies and pellets. he gets crickets 2 - 3 times a day and eats anywhere from 17 to 30 + at a sitting (no more than 15 min, he usually stops eating & basks after 10 min)
i know there are some worms that are high in fat which can make beardies overweight, but they are smart enough to stop eating crickets when they are full
According to my local reptile shop (NOT Petco, Petsmart....) Beardies can't overfeed on crickets.

 

[sweetiepie9]

I have 5 adult male dragons, so I have alot of experience with adults. I've always offered food daily, sometimes they eat, sometimes they don't. The only thing I wanted to add to this post is the recommended amount of feeders that adults should be offered, between 35=50 a week. Just to clarify.

 

[Jess]

I'm done with this thread now, since having a different opinion is making me the "bad guy" here and what I posted was taken completely out of context. But I would like to say that I was not trying to be rude to the OP, and I was simply asking if she had had an adult bearded dragon before, but being snide. I don't feel that that last post directed at personally attacking me was necessary, especially mentioning my age. Yes, I'm young, but that doesn't make me stupid, and I like to think that I've helped many people on this forum.

But whatever.

 

[WolfMama]

Actually, Jess, once again, you've taken me out of context your intent. Please go back and place it back in context. Additionally, you have falsified your meaning and intent.

LOL, but even in taking me out of context, it is seen that I referred to people denying them food. Ah, you did acknowledge the deny. I just realized that. So, you knew I was not referring to force feeding. Good to know

Additionally, that is not where you "disagreed." as that reply was made AFTER your initial reply In which you clearly stated that you saw no problem with skipping food - and prior I had referred to salads.

And, there is nothing wrong in what I said - there is no reason to deny them their daily food requirements

In addition, out of that entire paragraph, you pull one typing error. It's obvious that was an incomplete sentence and not consistent with what I'd said prior. And, yes, the reputable care sheets does state that a bearded dargon should be fed live staple 1x a day. However, you are repeatedly ignoring that I repeatedly stated that the main staple for an adult is 75%-80% vegetable matter. The care sheet at beardeddragon.org also states: "Sub-adult to adult Beardies only need to eat prey items once a day along with fresh greens. " Whether a person feels it is best for their bearded dragon to feed live daily or not, was not the topic. But, I would hope that those who do not feed them live daily do so out of a need for balance and not as you have suggested, "it's [not] the end of the world."

Nevertheless, what absolutely stated thusly, PRIOR, so your argument was not as you alledge, because Randommonks and you both attacked (both in PM and here) and defended that it was find to skips days of feeding. You were referring to ALL food, that was clear from your replies.

Now, again, the live was brought up as you had twisted what I said, and I went on a different tangent. You are insisting that feeding a bearded dragon live food daily will make them fat. That attitude is incorrect, unless there are some other issues with the bearded dragon (lack of exercise, medical, not enough vegetables, inappropriate ration of vegetables to live, etc.). What is said in responsible care sheets is to feed them all they can eat 1x/day for 10-15 minutes (of course that would depend upon the bearded dragon, and the balance of vegetable matter <sigh> I really don’t know how many times I have to clarify this to you).

Nevertheless, here was your reply, once again:

But if an adult beardie isn't fed every single day, I don't think it's the end of the world.

Here are a few of my replies, including prior to your reply, in which I repeatedly stated that it was cruel to deny them food
“If a bearded dragon is "overweight" it's not going to be from vegetables, and approximately 80% of an adult bearded dragon's diet is plant matter.”

“a salad should always be provided on a daily basis, and the comment made in the opening post was with regard to people who state that thye only feed their beardies 5x a week or less.”

"It's so very cruel to withhold food from anyone (unless necessary.)"

"That’s just it. They may choose to eat a little bit, but it’s offered and they at least have the option."

"That’s their option. I’m glad you offer them food every day Then they choose to eat or not eat. We can’t know when they are hungry or not. Some days our beardie doesn’t eat as much in the 3rd meal of the day, some days he devours it. But, he always has the offer so he can eat when he is hungry. I can’t bear the thought of any critter sitting there hungry, not knowing when they will have food again. LOL. I wonder if on the days they don’t eat the salad they are telling you, “Um, ‘scuse me, I’d like my worms and I’m not eating this <hmph> “

(um, that was a joke at the end. Of course you don’t feed them the junk food type worms over their salad or other staple food )

ALL of those replies were made BEFORE you posted
Salads can be left out all day and from what I’ve seen, most people will put them at the cooler end and leave them in there. I don’t see a reason to limit their salad eating to 10 or 15 minutes.\

You clearly understood all of what I said, and that you clearly have no problem with people skipping a day here or there, or feeding them 5x a week, or every other day. That is so very distressing and so very sad.

What I stated was obvious to most others. My intent and appreciation for the support of the like-minded was, also, obvious. If you did not like the topic (which you, AGAIN - and this is bordering on exhausting - came into this thread neither reading my OP nor my replies - so what your intent was is questionable), then you needn't have replied.

Again, it’s cruel and unnecessary to leave an animal hungry for no reason regarding health. People need to stand and be a voice for the voiceless.

I would appreciate it if you just allowed this thread to be the support network it was intended for those who care about their emotional and physical well-being. I would also ask that the school yard mentality stop and allow the intent of this thread. And, I am glad that it at least brought forth some who had concerns for the bearded dragons nutritional needs and appetites – and that people came here concerned that they received their daily nutritional needs

Incidentally, you both clearly feel that even forms of husbandry that are so very explored on these forums as not being what is best for bearded dragons, is arguable. You chose to argue a point on providing in favor of denying a poor living critter the simplest of needs as to leave them to go hungry for a day for no medical reason - to which it saddens me, and is disturbing, that anyone would chose to argue such a thing

And, while I did not address it, it is suggested by the more better care sheets, that even adults be fed all the live 1x/day So, I do not feel that live STAPLE should be denied, either. Nevertheless, a salad should always be provided on a daily basis, and the comment made in the opening post was with regard to people who state that thye only feed their beardies 5x a week or less. Thus, there is really no reason to deny them even live on a daily basis, other then for medical or health necessity.

This is what I am disagreeing with in my last post. WolfMama specifically claimed that she thought adults should be fed "all the live 1x/day" and that we shouldn't "deny" live food daily. Feeding an adult all the live food it wants everyday is NOT healthy, and it WILL get fat.

It really just rubs me the wrong way that the OP is suggesting you are a "cruel" owner if your beardie isn't fed every day, and that you are "denying" it food my not feeding bugs daily, and that her way is the only right way. From my experience, reptile feeding schedules are not that black and white.

 

[snazzyglasses]

WolfMama- you're very welcome!

And I also thought dragons in general were pretty smart about not overeating? Especially since from an evolutionary standpoint it's probably not sensible for dragons to stuff themselves to the point of vomiting or internal injuries or inability to escape predators. Babies and juvies don't tend to overeat from what I've read/seen/heard, and neither of our adults have overeaten so far, nor have I heard of it happening. (I'll admit I've even given Brick different sizes of superworms before, to see if he always ate his "set" number of 5-6 like with the larges, or if he ate more when the worms were medium sized. He definitely eats more worms the smaller they are, and it all evens out to about the same "volume" of food each time. He eats until he's had enough, then leaves the rest of the worms in his dish.... Apparently I have too much time on my hands if I'm sitting and counting worms for fun, lol )

Anyways! There's also the issue of surviving vs thriving. An animal may be able to survive being underfed, but that doesn't mean it should be underfed. This thread is one of my favorites that I've found on here so far, and really illustrates the difference between a thriving animal and one that merely survives- viewtopic.php?f=18&t=177052

 

[WolfMama]

Thank you for your reply, SweetPie9 And I'm so very glad you share our concerns on daily feeding! It is comforting and appreciative to have the support as that was why I had the OP.

I've not read the 35-50. I'm not saying that is incorrect. Some say to feed 1x/day live for what they will eat in 10-15 minutes. I did read some eat around that, and some eat 60 or so a week. But, maybe that varies slightly from beardie to beardie, as a daily schedule for that may. After all, not all adult beardies are the same size, and have the same activity level

To be clear, I'm not arguing with your point (I'm only clarifying because of recent events. I'm sure you knew that ) , merely discussing the possible differences As I said, my concern was denying them food on a daily basis for no health reason - or limiting their food unnecessarily (such as the pet shops that have the 5 cricket a day rule we all discussed earlier and I've seen so many threads here where people were told this (but thankfully learned better) - ). It is so disturbing how many pet shops are giving the wrong information - and how many people on the net (youtube, etc) are just "oh I only feed her about 5x a week or so" or "every other day."

Thank you, again, for the reply!

I have 5 adult male dragons, so I have alot of experience with adults. I've always offered food daily, sometimes they eat, sometimes they don't. The only thing I wanted to add to this post is the recommended amount of feeders that adults should be offered, between 35=50 a week. Just to clarify.

 

[WolfMama]

I'm sorry, arp! I sent a reply but it didn't go through I may have hit preview by accident.

Thank you for your reply and support to the OP for what this thread was created for! I share your sentiment that "they can't jump out of their viv and grab a snack when they get hungry." It is very much appreciate it!!!

True, true on certain worms. I know someone that was feeding their beardie all wax worms and only a few crickets. They had the information backwards It was a mistake. Not intentional. I'm not sure, but I think the pet shop told them this. That was a new one. LOL.

Good job on the veggies Glad your beardie is eating them

I am new to the forums (not a big poster)
I had a separate question and saw this
I don't see how anyone can not feed their beardie (or any other living creature) daily.
It is cruel to not feed a beardies (or any other living creature) daily.
They may not eat, but you have to offer fresh food daily.
They can't jump out of their viv and grab a snack when they get hungry,
my beardie is just starting to eat his veggies and pellets. he gets crickets 2 - 3 times a day and eats anywhere from 17 to 30 + at a sitting (no more than 15 min, he usually stops eating & basks after 10 min)
i know there are some worms that are high in fat which can make beardies overweight, but they are smart enough to stop eating crickets when they are full
According to my local reptile shop (NOT Petco, Petsmart....) Beardies can't overfeed on crickets.

 

[WolfMama]

WolfMama- you're very welcome!

And I also thought dragons in general were pretty smart about not overeating? Especially since from an evolutionary standpoint it's probably not sensible for dragons to stuff themselves to the point of vomiting or internal injuries or inability to escape predators. Babies and juvies don't tend to overeat from what I've read/seen/heard, and neither of our adults have overeaten so far, nor have I heard of it happening.

I agree, Snazzy! I think, from what I've heard, the larger problem is when they don't eat their veggies in the proper proportion. But, there are many ways to help encourage that. As you obviously know from my posts, I'm all in favor of making sure they have that proper balance

I also find that a lot of people tend to feed the waxworms and butterworms on a more regular basis, so I'm sure that adds to the problem. Most do so unknowingly. I've seen that ont he videos as well, where people just see to give them all they can eat of them. The things I've seen some people feed them! Some of those video clips are horrifying

(I'll admit I've even given Brick different sizes of superworms before, to see if he always ate his "set" number of 5-6 like with the larges, or if he ate more when the worms were medium sized. He definitely eats more worms the smaller they are, and it all evens out to about the same "volume" of food each time. He eats until he's had enough, then leaves the rest of the worms in his dish.... Apparently I have too much time on my hands if I'm sitting and counting worms for fun, lol )

:lol: :lol: :lol: I think a lot of us get a bit ... um... obsessed with our beardies. :lol: I was showing pics and even a video of our beardie at Thanksgiving! :lol: After all, he couldn't be there to meet everyone in person. :lol:

Anyways! There's also the issue of surviving vs thriving. An animal may be able to survive being underfed, but that doesn't mean it should be underfed.

Oh, VERY true and well said!

This thread is one of my favorites that I've found on here so far, and really illustrates the difference between a thriving animal and one that merely survives- viewtopic.php?f=18&t=177052

Oh, I'll check that out. Sounds interesting Thank you for sharing! And thank you so much, again, for your understanding and support over my concerns!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[diamc]

Unfortunately, this thread has really gotten out of hand and has gotten off topic which is unfortunate as the information in the first post looked very promising and informative. I don't feel that anymore can or should be said about this whole feeding topic and the bickering has become unacceptable now. The site policy on Rude Behavior has been broken which proves that members need to re-read all the policies that everyone agreed to follow when joining the whole forum, here's the link regarding the Rude Behavior policy. viewtopic.php?f=48&t=65765#p500638 The main job of the moderators is to "keep everyone playing nice" and it's obvious that is not being followed here so I have no choice except to lock this thread to prevent any further conflicts. I'm sure that when you re-read this particular policy, you will understand my reasoning and realize that I have no other alternative. There have also been multiple Abuse Reports submitted from just this thread alone that proves that it has gotten way out of hand.