New to Snakes ~ what is normal growth? shed?
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blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
oh, forgot to mention, we checked his water bowl, and the other cage surfaces he frequents ~ no evidence of mites (nothing that looked like pepper, not even tiny remnants) ~ and daughter and I were the two that did all the water changes, she had not seen anything in his bowl except poo the one time, and just water all the other times. So maybe his temps were off, I'll get the digital temp out tomorrow a.m. and check (he usually hides in his log or under his paper towels as the sun is coming up)
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
I have the probe type thermo that I use for dragon temps (2 total) and the infrared temp gun as well, I don't trust the little dial thermos at all, they can be 20 degrees off at any given time 
Still soaking... he really likes that spa LOL
Still soaking... he really likes that spa LOL
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
LOL ~ I peeked in as I was headed to bed, and the bottom of the long tube (runs from the floor up to 2" shy of the ceiling) is wet... LOL he found his new tube, and is totally curled up in it. All we see are striped coils of snake middle... with the way he can flatten and square his muscles, I assume he won't get stuck? Its cute. Speaking of which, I didn't realize a snake could make themself "square" ~ that was cool.
Floof
Juvie Member
Sounds like he likes it already! That's awesome!
Yup, snakes are very good at manipulating themselves in AND out of tight spaces. It'll also be an interesting experience the first time you go to remove him from the tube.. With my Beauty, the easiest way to get her out of her tube was just to rub her side until she got fed up and came out the other end on her own, lol.
Yup, snakes are very good at manipulating themselves in AND out of tight spaces.
It'll also be an interesting experience the first time you go to remove him from the tube.. With my Beauty, the easiest way to get her out of her tube was just to rub her side until she got fed up and came out the other end on her own, lol.
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
He has really really liked those dumb tubes this week, reminds me when my daughter was 2 and liked her box better than her Christmas present. LOL
He has investigated all his new "fluff" this week, slithered around every single fleece braid that I hung, and has been in and out of both tubes. Spent two additional days in the water spa, but has been out of the water for the last two days completely. Has been in one particular tube for about the last 36 hours, except for 1/2 hour jaunts where I guess he comes out just to stretch... then goes back in...
So we put his offering in again this evening, and we didn't see him for a couple hours. Were beginning to worry, but just went and peeked before heading to bed, and its gone ~ yay! he ate!
Of course he's in his tube again, so now how to I make sure he is warm enough to digest if he wants to be a difficult child and hide for the next 48 hours? I assume heat is integral to their digestion like our dragons ~ LMK ideas.
Since he has a full belly, will he be ore active? or more shy?
He has investigated all his new "fluff" this week, slithered around every single fleece braid that I hung, and has been in and out of both tubes. Spent two additional days in the water spa, but has been out of the water for the last two days completely. Has been in one particular tube for about the last 36 hours, except for 1/2 hour jaunts where I guess he comes out just to stretch... then goes back in...
So we put his offering in again this evening, and we didn't see him for a couple hours. Were beginning to worry, but just went and peeked before heading to bed, and its gone ~ yay! he ate!
Of course he's in his tube again, so now how to I make sure he is warm enough to digest if he wants to be a difficult child and hide for the next 48 hours? I assume heat is integral to their digestion like our dragons ~ LMK ideas.
Since he has a full belly, will he be ore active? or more shy?
Floof
Juvie Member
Yay! Congrats!!! Looks like the extra hiding places did the trick!
That seems to be how it goes with snakes... We can buy all the expensive pet store hides in the world, but, without fail, they'll pick the old paper towel tubes and recycled cardboard boxes as their favorite hides, lol! At this point, I rarely bother with fancy hides, unless I get them second hand (and they're easy to disinfect). I think the closest I've come to buying a pet store hide in recent months was when I picked up a little bamboo finch nest at Petsmart to use for my rat snake. She LOVES it, and it was only $6!
As far as temps go, he should move around and thermoregulate on his own once he's feeling safe enough to move from his hiding spot. They're usually pretty good about that.
Once snakes find a good hiding place at just the right temperature to digest in, they're usually pretty inactive/shy while they digest.
That seems to be how it goes with snakes... We can buy all the expensive pet store hides in the world, but, without fail, they'll pick the old paper towel tubes and recycled cardboard boxes as their favorite hides, lol! At this point, I rarely bother with fancy hides, unless I get them second hand (and they're easy to disinfect). I think the closest I've come to buying a pet store hide in recent months was when I picked up a little bamboo finch nest at Petsmart to use for my rat snake. She LOVES it, and it was only $6!
As far as temps go, he should move around and thermoregulate on his own once he's feeling safe enough to move from his hiding spot. They're usually pretty good about that.
Once snakes find a good hiding place at just the right temperature to digest in, they're usually pretty inactive/shy while they digest.
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
My son broke the red heat bulb, and my CHE is 100W (way to much for that small viv) ~ I'm using a blue moonlight until I get to the store. It is the same wattage as the red, but the viv dropped 2 degrees in cooler range temps, and higher elevations is 3 degrees cooler. So glad I have an arsenal of herp stuff when something is needed in the wee hours of the morning LOL I have two dragons on cabinets, and those cabinets are chock full of everything from egg cartons to raise feeders, to my beardie blankies, to extra bulbs of every wattage, syringes and pipettes, to new UVB in-case a bulb blows).
He came out of his tube, made two (slow) rounds of his viv at about 7 a.m., then went into the short tube.
OH ~ when we move him to the larger viv... do they like rocks like the dragons do? Of course snakes don't have fingernails LOL... but I was thinking for a shed scratching post? I would make sure that snake rocks are always snake rocks...
He came out of his tube, made two (slow) rounds of his viv at about 7 a.m., then went into the short tube.
OH ~ when we move him to the larger viv... do they like rocks like the dragons do? Of course snakes don't have fingernails LOL... but I was thinking for a shed scratching post? I would make sure that snake rocks are always snake rocks...
Floof
Juvie Member
Lol! Thank goodness for a big store of supplies!
As long as the rocks are down flat and he can't get under them and risk getting smooshed, I don't see anything wrong with trying out a rock or two to see how he likes them. I only have two "rocks" in use in any snake viv, but they're more for decor (and shedding aid) than they are for the snake's benefit.
As long as the rocks are down flat and he can't get under them and risk getting smooshed, I don't see anything wrong with trying out a rock or two to see how he likes them.
I only have two "rocks" in use in any snake viv, but they're more for decor (and shedding aid) than they are for the snake's benefit.
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
that is what I was planning -- shedding times, rocks go in for sure... I have loads of naturescape in my yard, 22 years of collecting rocks from around the country on our travels ~ so we've got some beautiful pink/white ones that are very flat on the bottom, I could always shave it totally flat for his rock. And incase he were to skunk it, his rock would forever be his... my dragons each have a huge one, then a smaller one for when I have to soak a biggie for poo removal/defunk LOL
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
he still hasn't changed his skintone any more toward what I would think is shed ~ but I found him enjoying his spa today... not sure if they like to soak after eating maybe? Just curious... so much to learn as we go LOL
He hid in his one tube for about 24 hours after eating... well, probably more like 30 hours... then came out, went thru his fleece rope vines to play and stretch, then curled up in his spa... I guess they digest fairly fast, as I didn't really see a "lump" in him? There was one area that looked like maybe, but wasn't sure.
Found a few neat snake anatomy charts, very interesting
He hid in his one tube for about 24 hours after eating... well, probably more like 30 hours... then came out, went thru his fleece rope vines to play and stretch, then curled up in his spa... I guess they digest fairly fast, as I didn't really see a "lump" in him? There was one area that looked like maybe, but wasn't sure.
Found a few neat snake anatomy charts, very interesting
blondie098
Gray-bearded Member
ok, these may be dumb questions, don't laugh too hard:
Do snakes urate like dragons as well as poo?
How long after eating is it normal to get poo?
I ask because: He ate his hopper Sunday night. He soaked in his spa and left a small present of what looked like a tiny poo, and a white urate-looking thing ~ that was Tuesday (yesterday)... so 48 hours after eating... but the poo was way smaller than the last one we got. Could he have digested quicker than last time because it was only one hopper (to get successful eating)? Smaller poo due to smaller meal?
So since we had one successful meal, should we only try a single hopper again this Sunday? or sooner? I hate the thought of him being hungry... but also don't want to waste mice?
Do snakes urate like dragons as well as poo?
How long after eating is it normal to get poo?
I ask because: He ate his hopper Sunday night. He soaked in his spa and left a small present of what looked like a tiny poo, and a white urate-looking thing ~ that was Tuesday (yesterday)... so 48 hours after eating... but the poo was way smaller than the last one we got. Could he have digested quicker than last time because it was only one hopper (to get successful eating)? Smaller poo due to smaller meal?
So since we had one successful meal, should we only try a single hopper again this Sunday? or sooner? I hate the thought of him being hungry... but also don't want to waste mice?
Floof
Juvie Member
Yep, snakes do produce urates! Especially bigger ones.. My Woma python (5 ft, around 5 lbs) likes to leave biiig, chunky ones under his hides for me. Ew!
I recently read a discussion on a different forum that mentioned average for young corn snakes (not kings, but similar) seems to be 2-3 days after feeding. So 48 hours sounds about right. And, yeah, the smaller size is probably due to the smaller meal.
By your description of his behavior, it does sound like he can handle 2 hoppers, if you want to give it a try. Keep in mind that growing slowly won't hurt him (some argue it may even be healthier!), so don't be afraid to stick with 1 hopper if you feel like he does better with that.
On that note, if 2 hoppers DOES seem to be the better route for him, that means he should be large enough to move up to weanling mice with no problem. A rough average of the weights of these sizes of mice is around 9-10 grams for hoppers, 15-20 for weanlings, and 25 or so for adults. If he can handle 20 grams worth of hoppers, then you might as well move him up to weanlings once you're out of hoppers. One appropriately sized meal is generally considered healthier than multiple smaller ones, as the bones and organs are more developed and there's less hair to deal with for the amount of actual, digestible food.
Personally, I'd stick with every 7 days (so, yes, feed again on Sunday) at his age and size. You can try 2 hoppers this time around and see how he does, then go from there on which size/amount you feel is better for him.
I recently read a discussion on a different forum that mentioned average for young corn snakes (not kings, but similar) seems to be 2-3 days after feeding. So 48 hours sounds about right. And, yeah, the smaller size is probably due to the smaller meal.
By your description of his behavior, it does sound like he can handle 2 hoppers, if you want to give it a try. Keep in mind that growing slowly won't hurt him (some argue it may even be healthier!), so don't be afraid to stick with 1 hopper if you feel like he does better with that.
On that note, if 2 hoppers DOES seem to be the better route for him, that means he should be large enough to move up to weanling mice with no problem. A rough average of the weights of these sizes of mice is around 9-10 grams for hoppers, 15-20 for weanlings, and 25 or so for adults. If he can handle 20 grams worth of hoppers, then you might as well move him up to weanlings once you're out of hoppers. One appropriately sized meal is generally considered healthier than multiple smaller ones, as the bones and organs are more developed and there's less hair to deal with for the amount of actual, digestible food.
Personally, I'd stick with every 7 days (so, yes, feed again on Sunday) at his age and size. You can try 2 hoppers this time around and see how he does, then go from there on which size/amount you feel is better for him.
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