New to Snakes ~ what is normal growth? shed?

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Floof

Juvie Member
It's possible! If he is going blue, you should find out over the next few days. His eyes will become more opaque until they're a fairly solid blue-gray (similar to the effect of the flash in those photos), which is about the height of the blue phase. It seems to be about a week to a week and a half from the time you can see with the naked eye that they're in blue that they go clear. After that, it all depends on the snake on how long you have to wait, but with young colubrids it seems to be just a day or two after turning clear that they shed.

If he is going in to shed, it is possible that that may have something to do with his refusal, though not as likely at such an early stage of the shed cycle...
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
Eyes a little cloudy today, and he has spent the last 8 hours in his bowl... I think we have blue LOL. I would be one huge wrinkle if I took an 8 hour bath, but he seems to be really enjoying the bigger bowl I put in there today :D He was also rubbing his face on the glass this morning like he was itchy, poor guy
 

Floof

Juvie Member
Sounds like it! You have one smart camera, lol! In that case, the easiest thing would probably be to wait til he sheds before offering food. Many snakes will eat in blue, and it doesn't hurt them to eat while in shed, but they are also MUCH more likely to refuse feed while in the midst of a shed.

If he's soaking constantly, he may feel that he's a bit too dry to complete a proper shed, so you might consider a humid hide to help with that. Humid hides are very easy to put together. A cheap tupperware, not too big. Cut a hole in the side or the lid. Fill with damp sphagnum moss. Put it near the warm end. Voila! This gives him a nice little moist microclimate to seek out if he feels the need for a higher humidity environment while he's in shed.
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
We behaved and left him alone today except for the "stuck" pic below... it is nice to have a SLR camera that can shoot great pics from across the room if I want LOL... he is dipping his head under the water, too, I assume that's ok and he won't get a snootfull? I've had to revive a dragon that aspirated (more than once he's my difficult child)... don't wanna go there with this guy.

Here is the soak spa, he really likes this dish so now its his:
BJ-soaking2.jpg

BJ-soaking1.jpg

This was where I found him at critter wakeup time this morning, funny guy:
BJ-wheredidhego1.jpg

And this was just about 1/2 hour after we removed the wall he was stuck behind, this is what I was trying to describe the other day, its funny to see:
BJ-stretchedout1.jpg
 

Floof

Juvie Member
He sure is a pretty guy! Looks like he's enjoying himself! And, yeah, dipping his head underwater is fine. :)
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
yeah, we think he's a keeper ~ I think we're all going to enjoy him :D and since he's young, we're hoping for many years. I just feel like I have so much to learn, but we all gotta start somewhere!
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
he doesn't appear to be going further into shed, so we wait... he really really likes his water bowl, though, he likes to dip his head under and go round and round and round...

We have offered one hopper today, he has gone over to it, looked at it, looked like he was going to strike, then he went the other way. Not sure if that means anything? We have left it in to see if he will take it. Have put it in a dish in the corner of his viv.

This past week we did have to take him out a couple times just to get viv cleaned or fresh water (he would move to where waterbowl was, so we had to pick him up and move him. Tried to keep it to a minimum. But he never struck at us during those times, and he also has been "peeking up out of his hidey branch" when he hears hubby's voice... and quite often he'd play peek-a-boo to see if anyone was looking at him. Cute, not sure if that means "I'm checkin' you out" or "come love me"...

Daughter and hubby held him for a short while today before we offered the hopper, incase he ate it... he was checking her out hand-to-hand and up her arm. He crawled into hubby's shirt pocket, then stuck his head out and just sat there, like a guard dog, it was cute.

He seems very relaxed around us, as well as very calm in his viv this week. Good signs?
 

Floof

Juvie Member
Calm can mean anything... It could mean he's settling in well, or it could mean he's too stressed to fight back. You'll be able to figure that out as you go along and start learning his personality. I do hope it means he's settling in well, though. :)

When you offer food, have you tried "zombie dancing" the mice? Grab the mouse by the tail or the scruff of the neck (using tongs, of course!) and dance it in front of the snake. While some snakes are perfectly fine with you setting their meal on the floor, some need this movement to entice a response. Something to try, anyway.

If he hasn't progressed into full blue by now, I'm a little concerned. You may want to treat him for mites, just in case he isn't just soaking for an upcoming shed. Provent-a-mite is a great product--make sure you follow the instructions carefully. You can also try the Nix Mix (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52545&highlight=homemade+mite+remedy), but with one snake you wouldn't need so much.

One sign of mites, in addition to the soaking, is seeing drowned mites in the water dish. If it looks like someone sprinkled pepper in the water dish, odds are, your snake has mites.

They will also often soak to cool off, if the temperature is too warm. Make sure he has a good temperature gradient--there needs to be an area that gets down into the 70s for him to cool off. If he doesn't have a good, consistent cool area, it's time to rethink how you're heating him.

(Mites and too high temperatures can also be causes for refusing to eat.)

With feeding, if he doesn't take this time, next time, if at all possible, do NOT hold him before offering. Even taking him out for a minute or two can stress him out enough for him not to eat. Technically, you don't really need to change his water daily, either, so long as it isn't soiled--it's great if you do, but changing the water 1-2 times per week works fine, especially in a case like this where minimum stress is key and removing the water dish involves upsetting the snake.

Looking back at the picture of his enclosure... I'm realizing now that that last pic seems to show the whole thing? Would it be possible to get fake plants/vines in there to give him more security, and allow him to utilize the height of the viv, as well? Garlands are cheap at dollar stores, and craft stores will usually have sales, as well. Or, you can get fake plants at the pet store. String them across the enclosure a few times at different heights to fill up that empty space and give him more security and hiding places, and that will help a lot with making him comfortable as he settles in. It would also allow you to put his warm spot higher in the enclosure so the lower levels stay cooler, if you're using overhead heat.

Here's one example to show you what I mean. This is how I arranged my rat snake's 12x12x18" vivarium. That's part of a cardboard wrapping paper tube under the fake plants, which allowed her to hide inside the tube at any height she wanted. I heated from the top with a low-wattage colored bulb, with the hottest spot being way at the top of the tube/vines in the corner, so she had that one spot in the mid 80s and the rest of the enclosure at room temperature so I wouldn't have to worry about overheating. Her water dish also served as a hiding place, which is useful when you're dealing with small floorspace; it's one of those plastic dog/cat water/food dishes with finger gaps in the side and a hollow underside. As you can see at the bottom of the back wall, paper towel tubes also make nice, cheap hiding places.
97319_218502_Large_t62ikfRUlgE.jpg


Just some food for thought to help you further diagnose why he's soaking and not interested in food. :)
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
"zombie dance" ~ giggle... worth a shot! I'll let hubby know about the handling before feeding, I'm off to dance with a deadmau5 LOL
 

Floof

Juvie Member
LOL! Have fun playing with the dead mousie! (It shouldn't be funny, really... But I can't help it!)
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
I guess we're all a little demented, but what's normal, really? LOL... kinda creepy, but then again I play with superworms and roaches for my dragons, ha ha

Before making the mouse a bellydancer, I'm putting together some silk flower vines and tubes like you had ~ ok to do that now? Or should I wait? figured since I have to open his viv to play with his food, might as well do it all? I am a crafter, so I have supplies of every sort... and my FIL just passed away in June, so I had some silk stuffs already nearby that were left overs from making his weatherproof graveside wreath. Also have some long fleece scraps that I braid to make dogbones for craft shows... thought that would make a good long sturdy vine for him to climb, and its washable too.

Yes, we have a 20g long but were waiting for him to get used to us before moving him... (the viv in the pics is the exoterra one like yours, came with him). Maybe we should chance it now to give him a better gradient? I actually have a 30 breeder that I would rather move him to, but have a dragon in it presently ~ will be a couple more weeks to get her a 40 breeder, I would rather do only one move so he isn't too stressed.

We have tested the bottom temps of the viv, they are between 72-73 this week with the red bulb, and 74-77 with the white bulb ~ the upper areas ranged from 83-87 depending on which bulb. He goes up high sometimes to get the warmth. But we have been watching the lower viv temps so his water didn't get too warm. He seems to like the water at room temp, is that normal?
 

Floof

Juvie Member
All the movement might upset him, but as long as you're not doing a lot to the bottom level of the viv (or give him something like a paper towel tube to retreat to after he eats and while you work), doing it now shouldn't be a big deal. Probably the best way to go about it would be to put in a paper towel tube for him to hide in, zombie dance the mouse, and, if he takes it, let him finish eating and find his way to a good hiding place before you start any work. Make sure he's securely in a hide so he has the last chance of being bothered by you, and do your best to be gentle and avoid jostling the cage at all while you work.

It sounds like your temperature gradient is good, so you shouldn't have to worry about upgrading him right away if you don't want to. :)

And yes, it's pretty normal for them to like their water to be on the cool side.
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
ok, that was pretty creepy ~ and he looked at it, but didn't seem too interested. Ok to leave the deadmau5 in there all night? (Sorry, my 14 year old daughter likes that artist)... got wrapping paper tube wrapped in a few flowers, will make it better in the next week, but maybe that will give him some new hideys to investigate. Did get some good giggles out of my kids, tho, making the dead mouse dance with chopsticks... My kids should laugh themselves to sleep tonight :D
 

Floof

Juvie Member
Darn... Better luck next week, I guess. Yeah, it should be fine in the tank overnight, in case he decides he'd rather eat once it's dark and quiet. :)
 

blondie098

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
yup, lights out for all animals now, and everyone is going to bed (we're on EST) ~ so we'll check if he ate when we get up at 7 :D He had retreated to his spa for a soak, so I quietly slipped in the braided rope and the longest tube with flowers running up it... so how he has climby things all the way to the lid, and I put the lamp (we have the itty bitty hood) toward the back so the heat hits the flowers / rope braid... 6 strips of the width of blanket fleece (I am a quilter, and make beardie blankies too so have loads of fabrics) made about a 24" long braid ~ so he has loads of fluffy and colorful hideys now LOL.

He watched me from his spa to see what I was doing, but did not rear up, nor try and strike out. I am hoping he is getting used to our smells now, plus we do try and move slower around him than with beardies... and just so you know, his viv is up and away from beardies, so when they are out for free-roam in the livingroom, they are not aware of him at all :D
 
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