New Owner With A Few Worries!

[Strat]

Hi everyone,

I'm Alex and my girlfriend bought me a Bearded Dragon for my birthday last Friday. I'm a little concerned that something is wrong, the place she bought it from sold her the tank (4' x 2') a couple of good size bits of dritwood, a nice big rock, a dome style log (which she was told will be perfect for when he/she grows bigger), a heat mat, heat bulb and UV tube and 4 bags of Calci Sand. Food wise, a box of crickets, a box of meal worms and some supplement powder. She was told that he/she will need feeding 2/3 times a day (crickets) but no more than 15 for the day. The lamps should be turned on in the morning (8 ish) and off in the evening (9 ish) with the heat mat on all the time. Lastly, not to touch him/her for a week.

I named him Bruce. When I had the tank set up i placed a thermometer in the centre at floor level. The heat lamp is above the log dome and rock with the heat mat below. The other side of the tank there is a piece of driftwood and some vine type plant (fake) and in the centre is the other piece of driftwood with a bowl with water placed in front. The temp reads 100F (placed at floor level in the centre).

He ate a few crickets the first day (which are a nightmare to catch and put in the tank) but seemed completely not interested in them afterwards, he also ate 2 or 3 meal worms, but only when i placed them right in front of him. The next day I placed 15 in the tank hoping that when i went to work he'd eat them, but when I came back they were all still there, which lead to the bad situation of getting them out! I had to get him out and place him on my shoulder whilist my girlfriend rounded all the crickets up. At one point he ran down my arm and jumped onto the floor, I managed to pick him back up and soon got him back in the tank. Since then he won't eat when I put anything in the tank when I am there but if I go away for a few hours and come back whatever food was there seems to have gone (unless its hiding under logs etc).

The thing is, he seems utterly petrified. He hides in the corner, under the fake plant at the cool end of the tank and whenever I approach his eyes fix on me but he is completely still and if I approach he backs off sharply and tries to run away.

I'm really worried I am a terrible owner and that I am not doing it right and that I'll mess the little guy up. I'm realy struggling with the crickets so I bought some Phoenix Worms, the arrived today (100 of them) and they are tiny!! most of them were dead, I placed some in the tank right in front of him but he didn't move. I left the room and came back and they had gone. So it appears that he is eating, but from reading around nowhere near 60-100 crickets a day! Also we weren't told about the greens to feed him so he hasn't had any yet.

Is he ok? scared about his new home? am I feeding him right? Ahh its so scary I want him to be ok

Alex

 

[ScooterBlenny]

It's ok, dude, babies are almost always scared of new places and take some adjustment time. I would ditch the calci-sand first, since it's the most dangerous thing you've got going on. I also wouldn't buy anymore mealworms, since they are a lot of "crunch" and not much meat inside. They can be particularly bad for babies, since they are especially prone to impaction.

Where did you order the phoenix worms from? I would be very suprised if you got dead phoenix worms from phoenixworm.com.

I don't think I'd be too stressed about his lack of appetite just yet. It really could take him a couple of weeks to totally adjust and get comfy.

You want the temp in the basking area around 105-110 for a baby, and in the 80s on the cool side. Sounds like your tank is plenty big for when he grows up! In fact, it may be freaking him out a little bit since it's so big, but it won't take him long to grow into it. If he remains really nervous, you may want to block off part of the tank for a while so he feels more secure.

 

[Buggsy]

Id just like to chip in here, the heat matt needs to be switched off ASAP! dragons cannot sense heat from their bellies and can get burns etc if it were to fail. The only form of heating you should use is the basking lamp.
Which leads me to the all important questions....sorry about thib but it just helps us get more acustomed to your set up. I agree at this point it is probably relocation stress but we like to be thourough!

How old is your dragon?
What UVB light do you use (please be specific about the BRAND as many of them are unsafe for dragons)
What are the basking temps (directly under the buld, ie hottest spot) ambient temps (on the 'warm' side) and th cool side?
What are you measuring them with?
What BRAND of suppliment are you giving, and how often.
Are you bathing or misting him/her?

This is my bible when it comes to greens:
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutritionframeset.html
Dont be surprised if your baby dosnt take to them straight away, they need to be 'trained' to like them!

Hope this helps
Buggsy

 

[spurlee01]

Hey Alex,
First off there are several things wrong, but it is not your fault or your girlfriend's. Pet stores are notorious for telling people wrong info.
First, remove the calci-sand immediately. Babies lick everything as their way of testing things out. Calci-sand gets stuck to their tongues, ingested, and it forms a hard lump in their stomachs which is near impossible for them to pass. Instead of sand you can use: reptile carpet, paper towel (my current choice), newspaper, nonadhesive shelf-liner, or tile (I am going to upgrade to this when I get her a bigger viv.
Second, go get a digital thermometer (this is probably actually priority above the sand) with a probe. Walmart carries one called Acurite for $12. You need to place the probe directly under the heat lamp and give us that reading. If it is over 115*F, turn the light off immediately and replace it within a couple of hours if at all possible. The stick-on thermometers can be off by as much as 20* and do not tell you what the basking temperature is. Since he is hiding in the cool end, he is probably way too hot. If the temps are as high as I guess they are, he will need a warm bath (about the temp you would bathe a human baby in) to rehydrate him. Try dripping water either with your fingers or an eyedropper onto the end of his nose and he will hopefully lick them off.
Third, turn the heat mat off immediately. It is probably making the viv too hot and dragons cannot since heat from the bottom so it could burn him, especially if it malfunctions.
As for food the pet store is wrong again. Feed him as much as he wants to eat in 15 minutes 3x per day. Please don't leave crickets in with a baby as they often chew on them and stress them out. You can feed the baby in a seperate bin (ex rubbermaid) so that he has an easier time catching crickets and you can catch them more easily if he chooses not to eat. Do not feed mealworms. They have a hard chitin shell which is difficult to digest. As for the phoenix worms, contact whoever you bought them from and tell them what happened. Good places will replace them. If they don't replace, don't buy from them again.
Offer your baby "salad" daily, but be aware he probably won't eat it for a few more months. Here are good/bad veggies to feed:
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html.
What is the exact type and brand of UVB that you got? The ones in kits are often horrible for dragons.
Please make these changes ASAP as babies can go downhill fast,
Sara
PS let me know if you have more questions

 

[Strat]

Thanks for such fast responses!

Ok here goes,

Age wise, they said he was 3 months.
UVB light is a ReptiGlow 10.0
I don't know the basking temp as the little thermometer is in the middle of the tank
Suppliment is Nutrobal
Not bathed him yet or misted him (we were told not to touch him for a week is possible)

Removing the sand is going to mean moving him, will this stress him out? where should I put him whilst I move the sand?

I'll bathe him tonight if its possible.

The mat is has been turned off!

The big worry is feeding him and him being scared of me. With regards to feeding him, I have a small plastic tank 8" x 4" which I'm keeping the crickets in (the little container they came in, we were told, wasn't big enough for the crickets!) can I place him in there for 15 mins to eat? and if I can, how many crickets can be in there with him (don't want to leave 40 or so running riot!)

 

[spurlee01]

More bad news... The reptiGLO 10.0 is a horrible bulb. Turn that off too. He can go a week or so without UVB until you can replace it. The best UVB Bulb is the reptiSUN 10.0 and you can order it from http://www.petmountain.com.
As for the feeding, that box might be a little small, but you can try. Be aware of crickets jumping out, though. I just drop 2-3 crickets in at a time and see if my girl is going to eat those and then drop 2-3 more in if she does that way I don't have to catch 20 crickets if she decides not to eat.
We really do need to know your temperatures as soon as possible, because they may be way too high. If the middle of the viv at the bottom is reading 100*F, then your basking spot may well be around 120*F which is too high. How soon can you get a thermometer? Temps that are too high can turn deadly.
Baths are the exception to the handling rule. Just put him in warm water up to his armpits. Be aware, he may very well poo in there. This will help hydrate him. This is going to be critical if you find out your temps were too high as babies can die quickly from dehydration. If you choose to mist him, do it outside of the viv; inside of the viv can raise humidity. My boyfriend and I give our younger dragon baths every other day (however she has to have pooped or had a bath before I let her run around) and our older dragon a bath every day because he will only poop outside of his viv and we prefer him pooping in the bath to on the sheets.
I am not familiar with Nutrobal. Is it a vitamin or calcium supplement or both? I dust with vitamins 2x a week and calcium 5x a week.
Sara

 

[spurlee01]

Oh are you in the UK? I think Nutrobal is used in the UK... I can tell you all about American supplements, but not UK ones. If you are in the UK, you'll want the Arcadia 12% bulb.

 

[chadwick757]

Unfortunately the shop you deal with has little to no understanding of reptiles. First crickets come in many sizes and can be fed to ANY dragon if sized properly ie. no bigger than the space between his eyes. The thermometer that you have is also near useless and at best is within 20 degrees of the actual temperature "not a great way to set things up" You want a digital thermometer with a temperature probe or a temp gun. Pro exotics has the temp gun for about $20 and they are great. You need to place your beardie in a plastic tub or any container he cant get out of while you get that Calci-sand out of his viv. You can replace it with reptile carpet, slate tile, shelf liner, or even paper towel. The reptiGLOW 10.0 is a bad light that can cause many problems in beardies. You will want to replace it with the ReptiSUN 10.0. Don't be fooled into thinking they are the same bulb. When needing a new bulb I had someone pick it up for me and they were convinced by the employees that the repitGlow and reptiSun were the same bulb. They are made by two different company's and the reptiGLOW = problems. I would take a good look at the care sheets on this site to prepare yourself for whats down the line. After we work through the miss information you will find being a beardie slave is quite rewarding and not nearly as complicated as when you just start out. This site is here to help, never be afraid to ask the "Stupid question" .

 

[Buggsy]

Nutribal is a vitimin and calcium mix, i have used it, and 5 times a week, just lightly dusted the food. I understand the mixes arn't brilliant, and will swap to seperate ones when it runs out!

http://www.livefoods.co.uk

This website is by far the best for the UK. they have both the ReptiSun10 and the arcadia 12% D3+, but are out of stock u til next week (i am waiting on my order )
All live feeders are also good, i have not had any die and recieve my order in 48 hours, which is good for royal mail! lol

So your thermometer thingy is in the middle? it that a probe for a thermostat or an actual thermometer? If its the round one, youll need to ditch it and replace ( i speak from experience they really are that far off ) Again the site above do the proper thermometers for £8, or you can e-bay a thermometer gun, i am waiting for delivery (£18 plus shipping) Both of these will help you gage the right temps.

What wattage bulb are you using for the basking spot? and is it a normal household bulb, white or coloured??

 

[Strat]

Hi everyone,

Well I got home about 25mins ago, put some warm water in the bottom of a 10L bucket (to about my first knuckle) and went to get bruce...he was so scared...I could hardly pick him up, he kept running and running, eventually my girlfriend caught him! (she thinks I am too soft and that I should be a bit more forcefull)

We placed him in the bucket and he puffed out...he seemed to be ok though and would lick water off his nose (not very much though)

Then moved onto the tank! Out came all the sand and replaced with kitchen roll, took the mat completely out. Put his stuff back in then emptied the water from the bucket (holding bruce!) placed him back in and dropped 3 crickets in with him, he looked at them a bit but tried to climb the bucket...just kept on trying the claw his way out I picked him up (he felt a lot softer and hydrated) and placed him back in the tank, he hasn't moved though.

To confirm, the UVB is ReptiGLO 10.0 and the heatin bulb is an Exo Terra 50Watt.

Oh, yes, I do live in the UK.

Bruce has just run away to hide in the corner under all the fake plants, again.

I feel really let down by the shop who sold all the stuff.

I am still worried about feeding him, I've left some Bok Choy in the tank (about a small pinch worth) but I'm really not sure about getting him out everyday to place into a feeding tub....but then again...catching all those crickets is difficult! although he just doesn't seem to eat more than 2 every time I feed him. I know it sounds like I am going on and on, but I really don't want to hurt him

I will try to pick up a digital thermometer tomorrow to get those readings, the temp has dropped 10 degrees to 90 since I turned the mat off which is good I guess.

 

[spurlee01]

Unfortunately many of us have been let down by petshops. You will want to turn off the reptiglo 10.0 and replace it immediately. In the UK, your best option is the arcadia 12%. Next would be the reptisun 10.0 if you can find it. The reptiglo 8.0 is acceptable, but not the best bulb. The reptiglo 10.0 causes lethargy and lack of appetite in beardies, sometimes resulting in death. As for feeding, I know it is difficult to take them out of the viv when they are that small and sqirmy. Mine is 6 months old and prefers to hunt, so I take out the cage furniture that the crix like to hide in and just drop them in the viv with her. I corner them and then scoop them up and back in the cricket keeper they go. Sometimes I push crickets towards her if she is being lazy and not chasing them. oooofffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff][
Well, my boyfriend's 10 month old dragon thought he would add his two cents up there. Hopefully that helps. Although it looks like he's telling me to get off bd.org.
Again, I know I've said this several times, but the most important thing for right now is checking your temps. If they really are 100*F in the middle, the cage is too hot. The middle should be 85-90 or so. For a baby, directly under the basking light should be 100-110*F. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Sara

 

[melissadiane7]

I have a little help for you with the cricket issue. Put some paper towel rolls or toilet paper rolls in with the crickets. They will go into the tube & hide. When it's feeding time just take the tube & shake it into the vitamin shaker or plastic bag or directly into the cage. So much easier than hand catching a few. The hard part is catching them if they don't eat them. But you'll get better at that in time.

 

[LaShomb]

IF you have a round stick on thermometer like the one you would use out side you are ok. IF you have a stripe stick on thermometer that only tells about what temp it is get a new on. Don’t for get that they like veggies to, the baby’s should be eating pin head crickets, and only give what Bruce will eat in one sitting. They are right when they say get rid of the heating pad, it can coos really bad damage, and barns.

 

[keschete]

I just want to chime in! THINGS WILL GET BETTER! You will learn and read and learn some more. It just takes time to get everything right.

It is frustrating when the pet store gives you the wrong information. Read a lot on here and when your tank is right, things will improve.

good luck!

 

[Ruby2uesday]

Hi there! new beardie owner as well. 1 mo ago actually! It will get better! Really listen to all of the advice you're getting on here about the lights and the temp probes! it's VERY important! I have to thermometers w/ probes one on my hot side w/ my probe on my basking branch and one on the cool side w/ the probe up near where he can bask under just the UVB.

Also, wear a tshirt for a day or so. then take it off, cut it if you have to, to make it small enough to put in the tank, maybe in his hide, but this way he gets your scent even when you're not there. this really does help. Mine wasn't a happy camper and didn't want to eat at first either. I feed Dubia Roaches but would put about 10-20 smaller ones in and he MIGHT have eaten 2-4-5 a day. that's it! Even tried the Phoenix worms. barely a nibble. But it is probably just relocation stress! Give him time and he'll come around. Mine is! eating upwards to 20 roaches and 20 small PW's a day! YEAH!!! And don't forget a mix of greens if that hasn't been discussed yet. and definat. make sure your temps are correct w/ probes or guns. those little stickers and dial things are cruddy!!

Good Luck to you!!!! this website is GREAT!!!!
ruby/huego