New Dragon - Possibly Gravid

[Dragonblade]

I picked up a new Dragon tonight. Possibly Gravid, but none of my other females are old enough yet. This one came from a friend that is moving to a new apartment that doesn't allow any pet (not even fish.)

She is 14-16 months old. He stated that she just started "fattening up" in the last couple of days, and went one day without much hunger but started eating voraciously after that.

Here are some pictures of her. What is the best way to tell if she is gravid and what should i do to quickly construct a lay box to prevent binding if she is gravid. Thanks,

 

[Judah'sHuman]

When you feel her belly can you feel anything egg like in there? you usually can feel the lil eggs when they are gravid. If you can, you will need to make up a little lay box for her. She can lay several clutches. so a few one one and a few a couple of days later. Also you will need to give her extra vits. They expend alot of energy into laying eggs. If they eggs are not fertile , ( a male beardie was not present before with the female) they eggs are infertile and you can discard them.

If you do not feel any eggs perhaps she is just a little stoped up. When was the last time she pooed? Sometimes they will not eat a thing and then eat a bunch. Judah does this offten and hes a male. Ithink they jsut get board with their food and then if you dont offer anythign else they will get hunger and eat a bunch to make up. So it could be (if you dotn feel any eggs) that she is just bloated from not eating and then over eatting.

If you dont feel any eggs and she still looks bloated for more than a week (and she has pooed etc) you can go ahead and try putting a sand box in there and see if she starts excessivly digging which will men she wants to lay. Let us know!

Hope this helps!

 

[Dragonblade]

Thanks for the reply. She has been with a male, they were housed together for a long time. When i pick her up her belly feels different than my male dragon (Draco, around 2 years old now.) but it is not hard like she needs to Poo.

I have sphagnum moss for my Leopard Geckos could I use that for a lay box or better to use something different? Also how deep should i make the box?

 

[Judah'sHuman]

Ok well its sounds like she is gravid then and the should be fertile if she was housed with a male. A Shoe box filled half way up with some Washed Screened Play Sand will work. I dont reccomend moss its not as good for burrowing. You can buy the washed play sand at Home Depot. a 50lbs bag is around $6 I believe that is what I pay. (Do not use any other kind of sand, please.)

Do you plan on hatching the eggs? If so you will also need an incubator. Im not experienced on the acctual hatching, but I beleve there is an artical about it located at the top under Care Sheets and Articals.

Also dotn forget about uping the Vits and make she she stays pleanty hydrated. It is best to use some watered down pedialite and you can mix in vits to it. I have also heard of people using Retpa Care, sometimes they get really malnurished durring the lay. The fat pads on the head depleat and will look sunk in. If she gets really deteriorated looking then the Repta Care would be the way to go. For now use the pedialite and vits (minerals too) 1x per day rather than every other day.

 

[Dragonblade]

I will get some play sand and build a lay box tonight. How long will they typically be gravid prior to wanting to lay the eggs? Also on the pedialyte/mineral/vites how are you getting that to them... do they drink it?

Thanks again I do plan to hatch the eggs, My intention has been to breed them all along. Have kept all my Dragons seperate so wasn't quite ready for this

 

[Judah'sHuman]

Oh sorry! You can pick up a BB Med syringe at Walgreens or a pharmacy. Put about 1-2cc's into the syringe with a lil pinch of vits. Put a drop on her nose and she should start to lap it up. She may latch onto the syringe then you can put lil squirts into her mouth. Be careful not to put to much in her mouth at once and if she grabs the syringe direct it accross her mouth rather than pointed down her throte so you dont asperate her. They usually will latch on and let go when they have a full mouth. You can use the pedia lite several times per day, as much as she will drink really. You can also mix it with some BB food like squash, carrots etc. and then she will be getting even more nutrience.

I looked in the care sheets and unfortunately I didnt see anything about the egg laying. Im not exactly sure how long it takes for them to lay the eggs. In my Beardie manual it says "As the gestation period nears its end, the egg passes through and area of the oviduct surrounded by the shell gland, which forms the calcareous shell. After they pass through the shell gland, you can offten see the outlins of induvitual eggs. (now more rigidly enclosed) pressing against the abdominal wall. They look liek graps or marbles." So if you can see these yet or feel them, they probably are still developing and have not made there way through the shell gland. So I think your girl still has a few weeks since you cant feel acctual "marbels" yet. "At this time (when you can feel/see the shells protruding) it is important to provide a nest of at least 12" of burrowing substrate. Most breeders provide damp soil as a substrate. If the substrate is too shallow or causes repeated collaps of the burrow, the female may refuse to dig and nest and an egg a day on the surface untill she finds a suitable laying site. Exposed eggs are susesptable to dehydration and my be harmed by exposure to excessive heat or sunlight." You will really need to keep an eye on the humidity, and check the soil and under the box frequintly so mold doesnt grow if you have a humidity gage it may help you out. Since you wont need to lay box untill you can feel or see eggs, I would think the damp soil will not be in there long enough to cause mold to grow, but keep an eye on it. After she lays one clutch you take the eggies out and mabey add new soil in, wait a few days for the next clutch so on and so forth. It sounds like the box should be placed at the cooler end of the tank so the eggs are not in direct heat." Now they also say 12" deep of soil, so for best result you may want a litte bit deeper box than a shoe box, but alot of people use a shoe box.

It says " that a 5 gallon plastic flower pot filled with moistened potting soil generally works well as a nesting site." There is organic soil you can buy that has nothing added, including plant nutrience etc. I have seen this at a few places, but you have to really read to make sure that ther are no additives. This may acctually work better than the sand, although I have seen people use sand, the potting soil sounds like it may work better so that the burrow doesnt collapse. I dont think most people have enough room for a 5 gallon plant pot in thier viv so a shoe box is commonly used. "Subsrate moisture is believed to provide important egg laying cues regarding suitability of the egg laying medium. clutch sizes have ranged from as few as 7 to as many as 46 eggs. average range 20-30 eggs."


The book I'm using is the Bearded Dragon Manual. It is the first one listed here:
http://www.beardeddragon.org/books/
I really reccomend you pick this up because it has alot of very usefull info, especially about breeding and incubation.

 

[Judah'sHuman]

Oh I just found something else, it says " The period between copulation and egg laying, can be difficult to tell accurately determine in reptiles because females of many species can store sperm for extended periods of time. As a rule for beardies, the the interval between a first breeding and egg laying will be about 4-6 weeks."

Doesn't help too much since you dont know exactly when copulation occured, but it may give you a little perspective

 

[Dragonblade]

Thank you once again for the info. I went home for lunch and put together a box real quick. May moisten the sand to allow for better burrowing of it.

I will look for the potting soil as well.

 

[Judah'sHuman]

Looks good! Yeah It sounds like the potting soil will work a little better (for best results anyways) especially since you plan on hatching them. She looks a little ticked about the new box in there. they are so picky

 

[OgleRpets]

Okay, dragons like to dig a LOT for laying. I used an 18 gallon sterilite container that was 3/4 of the way full of a sand, soil, and vermiculite mix it also has to be damp; wet enough to make a ball without any water wringing out when you squeeze it. They like it to be kept warm so I put a heat lamp above the container to keep the mixture warm. Then when I see my female digging around her cage I set her into the lay box to see if she feels like digging there. She will either start digging a lot or stare at me. I leave her in there about 5 - 10 minutes and if she still is just sitting there, I take her out and try again if I see her digging again.

We currently have 38 eggs in our incubator that are in vermiculite in deli cups.

I hope this helps.

Edited to add photo:

 

[Dragonblade]

I can definitely feel marbles now but she is showing no interest in digging. At what point after I begin to feel the marbles to I get worried if she doesn't start to dig?

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Try searching in the breeding section of the forum and most of your basic questions will be answered quickly. She will start to dig when she is ready to lay, she will be VERY commited to digging. Thats when I put my girls in the lay bin. My laybin IS a seperate container outside the tank. Its a big rubbermaid with a heatlamp on it. She digs a hole lays her eggs then burys them.

 

[Buggsy]

My female has just gone through a stressful first clutch, a grand total of 2 eggs!

I just wanted to point out that eggs are not always felt, it depends on where her muscles lie. I couldnt feel a thing, but then agin there were only 3 eggs!

I had to get a plastig 10 gal contaner, and she only liked to dig in damp sand, not soil. If they dont feel comfortable in their dig box they will hold onto the eggs. I was told a depth of 6-12" is a nice depth. They like to dig a tunnel, turn and put their bum in it, lay the eggs and bury them again. i left gizmo when she started digging, giving her some privacy, but when i heard loud banging i went in to see her compacting the sand (and the side of the box) with her head! bless.

From what ive read, they will eat like crzy, and as the space becomes filled with eggs, they go off thier food. This means laying will be in a week or so. Then they will get restless, pacing around, and climbing on everything! I mean literally, i found Gizmo sat on the curtain pole once, she had climbed up using the curtains! At this point offer the box.
If it is her first time it can be quite scary for her, she might take a while. If you start the hole off for her, and 'show' her the sand is for digging, she should get the hang of it! Some prefer privacy, some dont mind you watching.

Hope that helps, but like i said, ive ony been through it once so im by no means an expert!

 

[Dragonblade]

That does help sounds exactly like what she is doing. I will get a bigger out of cage lay box built tonight.

She has been eating like crazy and just running wild inside the viv last night..

 

[Judah'sHuman]

YEAHHHHH! It sounds like we will have eggies soon ! Have you been upping her vits as well?