New dragon, Clicking sound.

[Seven65]

Hi there, I just got my first dragon today and I have a few concerns. He's (don't know the sex so we're saying he for now) very small for his age and I was kinda worried about that when he was in the pet store, but I just assumed it was due to the poor conditions in the pet store he was also quite dark in colour. When I took him home and put him in his new viv that I'd been making for him his colour brightened within 15 min of being in there. He's been doing a bit a glass dancing but only when I'm around or have my head in the viv with him (think he see's his reflection.) He hasn't eaten anything I've tried 3 times offering crickets, meal worms, and different veggies. I also noticed his tail is slightly off colour compared to the rest of him.

What I'm really worried about is just recently he's been kinda puffing his neck out doing a slight twitch and making a light clicking noise, this worries me because "The Bearded Dragon Manual" has described a popping sound as a sign of respiratory infection.

His viv is 3'2" in length and 2' in width and 2.5' tall. There's a 150w basking light over a rock on one end basking spot is 105.1° and cooler side is 80.2° I'm using a digital thermometer with a probe for each side with the probe directly on the rock on the basking side. My uvb source is a 24" reptiglo 10.0 set at the top of the enclosure (I know theres somewhat mixed reviews about that bulb on this site, but looking at your polls, it looks like it's the second most popular bulb so I can't see it being too terrible. I can't get reptisun through either of the pet stores in town but I have one on order through Amazon because I'd rather be safe than sorry.)

In the time it's taken me to write this he seems to have stopped it but I'm still concerned. If anyone could help me determine the state of his health and perhaps something i could do about it if theres a problem I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, Ross

Edit: When I said he was small I thought he was smaller than he is due to my lack of familiarity with American measurements, he's about 5.75" and 6-7 months old. I don't know if that's still considered small but I eyeballed him at about 4" but being Canadian I was raised on metric.

 

[Seven65]

I finally got him to eat something, though I kinda had to trick him. I think he only does the clicking when he's being handled or right after, I don't know if he's angry at me or if it from being tired from running up my arms or what but he opens his mouth a bit before / while / after he does it and I used that chance to slip the head of a meal worm in his mouth he chewed it a couple times then decided it tasted good and ate it. I tried doing the same with a cricket but it seemed he wouldn't be fooled again.. any help deciphering this behaviour would be much appreciated.

Oh, and I gave him a bath, he didn't like that.

 

[Seven65]

I got him to eat finally :] I tried crickets again and he didn't touch them, then meal worms and veggies no go, so i tried a bit of squash baby food on his lips and he licked it a bit but was more interested in climbing up my arm onto my back and tracking baby food all over me when he seemed to settle down i put him back in the viv and put a meal worm in front of him and he ate it then a cricket. He didn't want any more crickets no matter how much I insisted but he ate 3 or 4 more meal worms off the ground of his enclosure. I was pretty happy that he was eating and proud that he got a cricket in him though he doesn't really seem to like them.

Still curious about the noise he's making though I think it might have something to do with digestion? I really don't know this is only day 2 for me and everything's new. Should I have posted this under health?

 

[ronni1221]

I think you should take him to the vet ASAP to be sure. I had a snake that made a clicking noise, and it did have a respiratory infection. Respiratory infections are one of the top causes of reptile deaths. Make sure the terrarium is not humid, as this can lead to or prolong an infection.

 

[Seven65]

Thanks for the advice. I'll look up a vet. Definitely not humid in there though, lots of ventilation.

 

[akingsley9000]

Hey Ross -

I would be concerned about the clicking.

It seem as though you have everything off to the right start.

Are you measuring him from tip of nose to tip of tail or tip of nose to base of tail?

If it is tip of nose to tip of tail he is very small for his age. At 6-7 months they are usually at least 14".

As far as him not eating, he is probably going through relocation stress. During this time they typically refuse to eat. It can last any where from a day or two to a few weeks.

 

[Seven65]

Yes it is nose to tail tip, and I figured he was still small. He started eating, but only mealworms. I know they are only supposed to be occasional but he won't even look at the crikets, and he's still kinda tentative about eating even those. I called the vent in town and he said he hasn't done much reptiles, especially not recently, and didn't feel as if he could give me an informed answer due to lack of experience in the field.

What do you think should be my next course of action? Would it be harmful to treat it as if it were a respiratory infection? and if not, how would I best go about doing that?

Also, I have this site to thank for getting the setup right, I've been visiting it for a month as well as some of the reading material recommended here. If I was to listen to the advice of the pet store things wouldn't have been so good ._. So thanks everyone.

 

[akingsley9000]

Yes it is nose to tail tip, and I figured he was still small. He started eating, but only mealworms. I know they are only supposed to be occasional but he won't even look at the crikets, and he's still kinda tentative about eating even those. I called the vent in town and he said he hasn't done much reptiles, especially not recently, and didn't feel as if he could give me an informed answer due to lack of experience in the field.

What do you think should be my next course of action? Would it be harmful to treat it as if it were a respiratory infection? and if not, how would I best go about doing that?

Also, I have this site to thank for getting the setup right, I've been visiting it for a month as well as some of the reading material recommended here. If I was to listen to the advice of the pet store things wouldn't have been so good ._. So thanks everyone.

Well they are generally very difficult to treat without medication. One thing you can do is up the temps a bit but try not to go any higher than 110F during the day. At night some extra heat can also help. Do you have a ceramic heat emitter? If you do you can use that to boost the heat at night but try to keep it between 65-75F.

Do you have any water in the enclosure? If so remove it ASAP
Do you mist in the enclosure? If so discontinue doing so and only mist outside the enclosure.


What state to you live in?

As far as him still being semi reluctant to eat that could still be part of the relocation stress or it may be due to what could be a RI.

Hows he doing today?

 

[ronni1221]

I am in no way a vet. I only speak from experience with my snake and my conversations with my vet.

Antibiotic shots will be important for his rehabilitation if he indeed has a respiratory infection. You should really see if there is a vet nearby that specializes in reptiles.

When my snake received the shots, he became very sluggish and did not eat for awhile. However, the clicking stopped and he slowly regained his health. I had to bring him in for shots at least 4 times. It is imperative that you continue the antibiotic treatments once you start. Shots will not necessarily hurt him, as long as you don't stop halfway through the required treatment time. I would expect your beardie to go through a change in mood during this time, and he may not eat as much, which will stunt his growth a little. HOWEVER, getting him healthy by eliminating the infection is number one. It won't matter how much he's eating if his body cannot fight the infection.

 

[Seven65]

I'll stop misting him and take out the water dish. Will he get enough hydration though the little food hes eating? Also i can get the temp up to about 107.5 at the basking spot so I'll turn the light up all the way and I do have a ceramic heater so i'll start using that at night.

As for how hes doing he seems pretty chipper. I found a design flaw in my viv, apparently he can climb the little piece of foam I used to fill the gap between the edge sliding glass all the wall all the way to the top of the enclosure (this seems to be where he chose to sleep last night) and the only way down is to drop and I can't get to him because he's right on the edge of the sliding door so that opening it would either knock him off or crush him. What I ended up doing is straightening out a clothes hanger and curving it so i could slip it through the edge of the door and pushing the t-shirt I have on the floor of his viv under where he was just in time for him to drop onto it. Looked like he would have landed on his feet anyways, but I have a friend who's baby dragon broke it's back jumping off something in his tank, so I'm trying to be careful about that.

I will try the other vet in town but the pet store told me that he didn't work on reptiles and that the one that I already called would have some experience, maybe they got it reversed. I live in a small mill town on the coast of BC Canada. The best chance I'd have at finding a reptile vet would be on Vancouver island. I live on the mainland so the only way there is an hour and a half long ferry + travel time to location which costs about $100 round trip for ferry alone + time off work that I can't really afford at the moment since I just started getting work well, today in about 15 min due to a slow winter. Nevertheless getting to a reptile vet would be quite costly for me and I'd like to try and pursue other options if somehow possible. I heard you could get drops to put in their water to help respiratory problems, do you know anything about this?

Really, I'd probably be better off returning my dragon to the pet store, going to Van island and buying a healthy one from a better pet store, but i'd rather not put this little guy back in the conditions of the local pet store, they seem rather ignorant on the subject of BDs...

 

[ronni1221]

As for how hes doing he seems pretty chipper. I found a design flaw in my viv, apparently he can climb the little piece of foam I used to fill the gap between the edge sliding glass all the wall all the way to the top of the enclosure (this seems to be where he chose to sleep last night) and the only way down is to drop and I can't get to him because he's right on the edge of the sliding door so that opening it would either knock him off or crush him. What I ended up doing is straightening out a clothes hanger and curving it so i could slip it through the edge of the door and pushing the t-shirt I have on the floor of his viv under where he was just in time for him to drop onto it. Looked like he would have landed on his feet anyways, but I have a friend who's baby dragon broke it's back jumping off something in his tank, so I'm trying to be careful about that.

those young guys are too adventurous for their own good! Mine is like that too.

Will he get enough hydration though the little food hes eating?

If you take him out every week for a bath, he might drink from the bath. Generally, dragons won't drink from a water dish unless they've been acclimated to do so. Mine doesn't really drink from his dish. It's in there just in case.

I will try the other vet in town but the pet store told me that he didn't work on reptiles and that the one that I already called would have some experience, maybe they got it reversed.

Call all the vets in town and make sure yourself. Go to the one that you think is best. If anything, the vet will be able to order the antibiotics to come in, if that's what you choose to do. Perhaps you can make a phone consultation appointment with a vet in Vancouver. I'm not sure about the drops in the water.

Really, I'd probably be better off returning my dragon to the pet store, going to Van island and buying a healthy one from a better pet store, but i'd rather not put this little guy back in the conditions of the local pet store, they seem rather ignorant on the subject of BDs...

This is a decision totally up to you. If the pet store sold you a sick animal, that's wrong. If his infection goes untreated, he will probably not make it. It depends on how you feel about the situation, how much money you are willing to spend, etc.

Most pet stores ARE ignorant of beardie caretaking, at least that's what I found from my experience. It's great you're on this website, because these people know everything you could ever want to learn about beardie care. They helped me save my dragon!

 

[akingsley9000]

As for how hes doing he seems pretty chipper. I found a design flaw in my viv, apparently he can climb the little piece of foam I used to fill the gap between the edge sliding glass all the wall all the way to the top of the enclosure (this seems to be where he chose to sleep last night) and the only way down is to drop and I can't get to him because he's right on the edge of the sliding door so that opening it would either knock him off or crush him. What I ended up doing is straightening out a clothes hanger and curving it so i could slip it through the edge of the door and pushing the t-shirt I have on the floor of his viv under where he was just in time for him to drop onto it. Looked like he would have landed on his feet anyways, but I have a friend who's baby dragon broke it's back jumping off something in his tank, so I'm trying to be careful about that.

those young guys are too adventurous for their own good! Mine is like that too.

Enjoy it while you can it will end quickly - they tend to get lazyer as they get older. :roll:

Will he get enough hydration though the little food hes eating?

If you take him out every week for a bath, he might drink from the bath. Generally, dragons won't drink from a water dish unless they've been acclimated to do so. Mine doesn't really drink from his dish. It's in there just in case.

Since we are going to be upping his temps i would bathe him at least 3 times a week. Misting is fine, just dont mist inside his enclosure because it will increase the humidity which is the leading cause of RI.

I will try the other vet in town but the pet store told me that he didn't work on reptiles and that the one that I already called would have some experience, maybe they got it reversed.

Call all the vets in town and make sure yourself. Go to the one that you think is best. If anything, the vet will be able to order the antibiotics to come in, if that's what you choose to do. Perhaps you can make a phone consultation appointment with a vet in Vancouver. I'm not sure about the drops in the water.

Here is a link with a list of vets in Canada - maybe it will help. Hopefully there is one near you. As far as the drops in the water, there is a new product out that is suppose to be all natural - some have sworn that it cured a RI - i'll find the name and info on it and let you know.

Really, I'd probably be better off returning my dragon to the pet store, going to Van island and buying a healthy one from a better pet store, but i'd rather not put this little guy back in the conditions of the local pet store, they seem rather ignorant on the subject of BDs...

This is a decision totally up to you. If the pet store sold you a sick animal, that's wrong. If his infection goes untreated, he will probably not make it. It depends on how you feel about the situation, how much money you are willing to spend, etc.

Most pet stores ARE ignorant of beardie caretaking, at least that's what I found from my experience. It's great you're on this website, because these people know everything you could ever want to learn about beardie care. They helped me save my dragon!

I completely agree. Did they give you a health warranty on him?

 

[akingsley9000]

Here is the link regarding the drops i beleive you were talking about: http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94618&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

link to page for ordering: http://www.chameleonsnorthwest.com/reptaid4.htm

 

[Seven65]

Thanks a lot for the help. I was intending on giving him a bath every couple days anyways, I've tried it once so far and he hated it what would you say the ideal temp is? I think it may have been too cold. I Just opened the door to his viv and he turned black right away I don't think he's too happy with me right now, probably not used to being handled so much.

I did get a warranty for 2 months due to his small size, but I'd rather not have to use it if I can provide him with a better home. I'll try ordering those drops and see if that helps I'll also try calling the other vet right now and see if he could do anything for me.

Another thing I'm concerned about is, if I were to take him to the island would it be safe for him to travel due to the cold weather? It's been snowing on and off for months and there would be the hour and a half on the ferry where the car would have to be off and there wouldn't be any heat.

Also on the note of diet, should i just not bother with crickets? He doesn't even look at them and wasn't happy with me when i fed him one and hasn't taken food from my hand ever since. He doesn't like any of the veggies I've offered either he licks them then closes his mouth and turns his head from it. Butter worms have jsut become available to me should I try those and see if he'll eat them over the mealworms? I hear they're high in calcium and lower in fat than the mealworms (although i don't think the fats a problem for him right now.)

Thanks a lot again, I really appreciate the help.

 

[ronni1221]

Thanks a lot for the help. I was intending on giving him a bath every couple days anyways, I've tried it once so far and he hated it what would you say the ideal temp is? I think it may have been too cold. I Just opened the door to his viv and he turned black right away I don't think he's too happy with me right now, probably not used to being handled so much.

Test the water on your wrist. It should be as warm as you'd make a baby's bath. I don't have kids, so this advice was over my head. I just made it a little warmer than luke-warm. My Brutus HATES baths as well. He's still a little terrified of me, too. I have to hold him with his arms under my fingers so he can't crawl/jump out of the bath bowl. He doesn't seem to like it initially, but he always turns a nice white under his belly and chin when I put him back in the tank.

I did get a warranty for 2 months due to his small size, but I'd rather not have to use it if I can provide him with a better home. I'll try ordering those drops and see if that helps I'll also try calling the other vet right now and see if he could do anything for me./quote]

I think this is a great idea! Looks like there have been positive results with the drops. It may take a little coaxing to get him to swallow them, but you'll get the hang of it.

Another thing I'm concerned about is, if I were to take him to the island would it be safe for him to travel due to the cold weather? It's been snowing on and off for months and there would be the hour and a half on the ferry where the car would have to be off and there wouldn't be any heat.

He's definitely going to need some heat. Maybe get some of those "hand warmers" that you put in your pockets. It'll keep him warm in his carrying case. Try using a duffel bag with towels for insulation and a hard bottom (like a piece of cardboard) so he doesn't get too thrown around.

Also on the note of diet, should i just not bother with crickets? He doesn't even look at them and wasn't happy with me when i fed him one and hasn't taken food from my hand ever since. He doesn't like any of the veggies I've offered either he licks them then closes his mouth and turns his head from it. Butter worms have jsut become available to me should I try those and see if he'll eat them over the mealworms? I hear they're high in calcium and lower in fat than the mealworms (although i don't think the fats a problem for him right now.)

I have the exact same problem with Brutus! He hates crickets! He hasn't wanted to eat them in months. I keep trying, but he doesn't go for them. I feed him mealworms every day and a couple of waxworms a week. I sprinkle a calcium supplement on everything. He occasionally eats a piece of the greens, but he's not really into them yet. Alot of people say that the mealworms aren't good for them. It can cause impaction (basically constipation) because of the chitin (exoskeleton). Also, they say that they are not as nutritious as crickets. However, I found an article about the nutritional value of feeders, and regular sized mealworms have more nutritional value than pinhead/small crickets (but not more than regular-sized crickets). I've also tried phoenix worms and hornworms, and he turns his nose up to those as well. Some people swear by phoenix worms and they have excellent nutritional value. If you try them out and your beardie likes them, that would be an excellent staple. If I can find that article, I'll get it to you...