New BD is a mess. Belly lump.

[NickyJames]

There is a reason for the huge preface, I promise.

I just bought a Beardie yesterday. While I have limited experience with exotics (firebellies, leopard geckos) I have no experience with Beardies. I named him Carlos, I got him from somebody on craigslist who said they just had a kid and cannot take care of him any more. It was a great deal, $40 for (what she said) is a 8-10 yr old beardie, tank, lights and all the neccesary stuff. I could tell from the beginning that she was a bad owner because she just didn't know a single thing about BD. I was shocked when I came to pick him up to find him so neglected, cage on the floor, lights weren't on, and cage was a mess! So I paid, and took my new Carlos home. he wasn't in a good mood and wanted nothing to do with me. He even tried to bite me.

Finaly when I got him home and got him set up I cleaned his cage (which was shockingly dirty) got him some crix and some veg which he chowed like it was a competition. lol. He quickly warmed up to me and let me pick him up and pet his beard and all. I'm very very quickly falling in love.

Now for the problem. When I got a good look at his (or her, I haven't gotten the chance to sex it yet) under belly I noticed a lump about the size of a large lima bean under his throat and about between his front legs. it doesn't seem to bother him when I push it and stuff. It looks like its under the skin and not on the skin. The whole reason for this preface was to explain that I can't answer a lot of the questions people ask because I've had him for less than a day! But ill give you what I can.

Sex: ? (Ill re post in a few hours with the sex hopefully)

Substrate: currently sand. I know its not ideal but its what he came with. I willl be moving him to a new substrate today hopefully. I'm thinking a carpet type.

Diet: I fed him about 4 adult crix and tried to give him some fruit and veg (which he didn't seem too interested in) I gave him some chopped apple and kale. When I get home ill give him some more crix and a different veg now that I've done a lot more reading.

Lighting: infrared heat lamp and long UVA/UVB hood lamp. (I'm going to assume based on the condition I received him in that the buld needs replacing)

Enclosure: 20 gal. Long. Screen top.

Length: approx. 10 inches

Age: no clue. This woman said 8-10 yrs but judging on her lack of love and enthusiasm for the animal, I doubt the truthfulness of it.

Temperment: ever since I got him he seems a little brighter. Probably not AS alert as he should be. The reason I think this was because he was slow when getting the crix. Videos I've seen of BDs eating, they are ferocious and quick. He wasn't. Seemed weak. His eyes seem ok, if not a bit relaxed. No unusual smell or fungi, liquids etc. Coming from him. However I have not seen him defecate yet.

If possible I will post a pic of the lump asap. I read all over the internet and a lot of ppl pointed me in your direction saying you guys were polite, non-judgmental and hospitable. Here's to hoping that's true! If you would like to email me on the matter you can reach me at [email protected] or post here if you need further info. I tried to be as thorough as I can. Remember, I'm a noob but I'm most willing to learn if someone is willing to teach. I hope you guys can help me and Carlos out. I know there's a happy dragon under that grumpy face!

 

[Jiffy]

Hi. Sorry, I dont know what the lump may be, but wanted to bump this up in case someone else can hlp.

 

[jennvee]

Hi NickyJames! I do not have enough knowledge to help you, but I just wanted to welcome you to the site. I am sure someone will be along to help you soon... everyone is great here! Good luck with Carlos and please upload some pics!

 

[carmdac]

Hey! not to sure about the lump. i do know that a 20 gallon is way too small and that is why the BD is only 10 inches at 8-10 yrs old. Should have a 50-75 gal or better. As for the substrate, still not sure which way to go. Depending on the experts carpets are no good, the BD can lose hi/her claws. Some say no sand and all say no crushed walnut shells. I am currently using carpet for a 14 week old and leaning towards sand myself. Good luck to you.

 

[crickest]

I use a combination of tile and carpet. Works well and is easy to clean. My viv is too big for just carpet and Spark doesn't like to poo on the tile. ; )

 

[crickest]

Here is a list of the foods recommended for dragons: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/
It will be on this website.

 

[Triage]

10" inches at 8-10 years? That is extremely small isn't it? I think my 11 week old is that size. (From head to tail)

I'm a newbie, but I'm gonna suggest posting some pictures, there are a lot of very knowledegable friendly people here. I LOVE this SITE!!

Good luck on nursing the guy back to health. And kudos to you for getting him out of that horrible situation!

Triage

 

[cadjockey]

I am thinking that the lady was incorrect in her aging. (8 months and 8 years obviously a big difference)

Does this beardie look like a baby still (slightly round similar to a snake) or does it have the triangular shaped head such as a juvenile or adult. Photos would really help.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

without pictures im just guessing. The lump COULD be a fat pad, but i dont know.
Pics please.
And people with a little more ecp than I can guess to.
Welcome aboard and nice things.

 

[NickyJames]

hey guys! thanks for the warm welcome!

Keep in mind im aware that alot of Carlos' surroundings are whack at this point. im none too hapy about him being in a 20 gal either. . I will post pics as soon as i get back from the pet store. getting rid of the sand for now. gotta go withn my budget ya know. ive had a lot of people just badgering me for his current conditions wen they dont know that ive ad him for about 24 hours. havent had a chance to really better his life. but also what im noticing is he sucks at hunting crickets. the ONLY way to feed him them is with tweezers. is this bad? he seems to have like real bad eye sight and only sees them when they are right in front of his face ill post more when i get back. my girlfriend is rushing me out the door. lol.

ttyl

 

[coldhearted]

I like your style, the first day and asking the right questions.
Im only a 6month veteran of beardies...but i can tell you that they improve alot when you square away their living conditions.
So for now dont freak out about how slow carlos is to eating. The fact that he ate is a very good sign. i suggest giving carlos a warm bath in a shallow tub, that helps them poop. If you are short on cash save the vet trip till everything else is set up. A cheap way to asses conditions is to take a poop sample in a plastic baggy to a herp vet. Its cheap and a good way to see if there is any parasites.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is so good of you to take in a dragon in need. Yes, when you can please post a few pictures of him so we can take a look at his overall condition, it helps a lot. The lump, is it soft or hard to the touch?
It could be a fat pad, or an abscess or a cyst. A picture will be helpful.
The infrared light will need to be replaced as he needs bright white lighting, not colored lighting. A regular household lightbulb will work fine, or a halogen light is good too. What type of UVB do you plan on using?
What type of thermometer will you be using? I suggest either a digital probe or a temp gun, but not a stick on type they are not good for measuring the basking temperatures. He will need a basking temperature of 95-102 or so for his age, IF he is 8 years of age.
The one we recommend for that size of tank is the Reptisun 10 florescent tube bulb. You can purchase it for a great price here:

http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html

I would focus on hydration status, as well. Has he gone to the bathroom yet? You will need to monitor his urate output, as well to make sure his kidneys are working properly. So, start slowly on the protein, & work on trying to get him to eat his greens & veggies too.
He will need calcium 5 times per week right now since he has probably not had much of any & could have metabolic bone disease.
I know you will have more questions, as you get supplies so don't hesitate to ask!

Tracie

 

[NickyJames]

iow[]\\ <-- my cat Snarf walked on the keyboard. he says hi. im so glad i joined this forum! you guys are really cool and helpful. I run a forum for the band Lifehouse (http://www.Lifehousenation.com)and I could take some pointers! :study: So, I want to give him a bath but i think I'm going to wait for tommorow since i took him to the pet stre and what was supposed to be a 30 min trip out took 3 hours so im sure he is pretty stressed. before I continue, id like to address something. I first noticed this when I got my bombina orientalis' a few weeks ago that no one seems to really know whats good for these animals. every throws around the word "best" "only" "never" like nothing. Ive heard...

dont give them infrared light. they can see infrared and it will disrupt their day/night cycle

they have to have infrared

dont give them superworms cause they cant really digest them

dont give them superworms because if they dont chew the head it will chew through the BDs stomach

its ok to give them superworms as long as you chop the heads off first

they need 55 gal. of space.

they only need 40 gal. of space

they have to have a breeder tank

vitamin D3 is bad for them

vitamin D3 is good for them

carrots are ok as snacks

dont ever give them carrots because they cannot absorb the Vit A.

they like/dontlike to be handled

they will bite out of aggression

they wont bite out of aggression

sooooo many different "rules" and misnomers out there i dont know what to believe. so until there is a beardie bible, dont hate me for discounting some of your suggestions. Im just going on what makes the most sense and what most people say is good. but i really appreciate all your suggestions so please keep the coming! :!:


onto Carlos... here are some images of him and is habitat. :!: Keep in Mind :!: that im still working on him. I have decided to keep the sand substrate (i know some will hate me for this) because the sand is digestible (I know some say it isnt). I bought what i could today. some superworms (which I chop their heads off before feeding him)

Reptile food pellets

Thermometer

a 100w heat bulb. infrared. the one he had was 50w! totally not enough. now with the new bulb his temp in the basking spot reads exactly 101. his temperment seems to be slowly improving. in fact he even shared some food out of a bowl with my cat Snarf. but his eyes still seem lazy and he seems slow.

I went to a specialty reptile pet store and a nice lady looked at him and said he looks dehydrated. so she sold me this electrolite and D3 solution to put in his water. but i havent seem him drink once. and he still absolutely refuses to eat greens of any sort. tried giving him Kale, squash, carrots, bell peppers, an olive, parsley and apple sauce but he wants none of it. I also bought some dust.

ok now, for reals, onto the pics.

youll have to excuse me and my n00bness for not being able to post pics on this forum. so here are links to flickr.

1st pic of lump
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40792701@N02/4059363843/

2nd pic of lump
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40792701@N02/4059362769/

3rd pic of lump
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40792701@N02/4060106548/

habitat
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40792701@N02/4060107538/

habitat2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40792701@N02/4060107058/

purddy face
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40792701@N02/4059363287/

there it is. speculations?

also, im really perplexed as to how he intakes water. n00b alert. does he drink out of a bowl (like the one i have set up) or does he get it from his food? or should i be misting him? :?: on a side note. I told you that woman said he was 10".... bullfrog, i measured him this morning and he is 17 inches! gah! i want to get him a bigger tank but one of the specialists at the store said it would be more of a luxury for him and not a neccecity. SO MANY OPINIONS THAT PEOPLE PASS OFF AS FACT! so lets keep talking peeps. gime the scoop. btw if you ever wanna reach me outside of the forum you can get me on AIM: nickyjameslh or Yahoo! MEssenger: [email protected] or email: [email protected]. :wink: thakns for listening to my rants guys and e chronicling Carlos' every movement.... speaking of every movement. he was sitting on the dashboard of the car on the way home, just chillin, and he started to poop. I don't know what normal BD defecating looks or feels like. but he looked like he was really struggling with it and then this bog ol' white turd came out followed by a bunch of brown, normal looking doo. it felt normal when i cleaned it up. it was gross.

thanks guys, you rock!

NJ

 

[Trogdor_1]

Hello.
I'm afraid I can't say much about your little guys lump. But I would try to get him seen by a vet, especially if he is an older guy.
As for "beardie bible rules", I'll try to clarify those for you.

-Infrared does disturb their sleep. Beardies only need heat at night if the temps drop below 65*. In these cases, use a ceramic heat emitter.
-Dragons over 16" can safely eat supers (with the heads still attached). I use superworms as my main feeder for my adults. They love them and I have never had a problem with digestion. Also, the chewing out of a beardie stomach is a rumor - digestive juices kill superworms, so they won't have a chance to chew out of your dragon.
-The minimum space for a bearded dragon is a 40 gallon breeder (36"x18" foot print). We say "breeder" because these tanks are short and fat rather than tall and skinny. In theory a 55 gallon sounds bigger, but in actuality the floor space is way too small.
-Dragons need D3 in their calcium if they are using a florescent tube light. When using a mercury vapor bulb, you don't need to supplement the D3 because of the strength of the light.
-Carrots are ok in moderation. They shouldn't make up the bulk of your dragon's diet.
-Most dragons love being handled. But all animals have their own personality, so not ALL adore attention.
-Yes, a dragon, like any other animal, will bite out of aggression (or fear).


I strongly recommend that if you decide to continue using sand, you purchases sifted and washed play sand from a home improvement store. The sand that is sold in pet stores is NOT digestible, no matter what the bag says. Also, sand holds bacteria and needs to be cleaned (and replaced) often. Tiles and carpet can be washed. Even better, paper towel can just be thrown away .
As for water, bathes are best. Dragons don't naturally drink from standing water, so water bowls are usually useless. Soak him for 15-20 minutes in warm water at least once a week. For now, you can safely bath him daily to help with his hydration levels. Most dragons get most of the water they need to survive from their veggies and insects. Bathes help to ensure that your dragon will stay hydrated, regardless of his eating habits. For his salad, try to put superworms in his salad bowl to encourage him to eat. You can also try handing him the salad - sometimes the movement encourages eating. Keep trying with fresh salad daily. Try putting it in his tank in the morning and feeding insects in the evening. And remember, at his age, he should only be getting about 35-50 insects per week. Too much protein is not good for adult dragons. Also, temps play a vital role in digestion. Did you get a probe thermometer or an infrared temp gun? Those two are really the only accurate thermometers to use. Anything else can be off in temps which can be very harmful to your dragon.
And his poop sounds normal. The white part is the urate (his pee) and the brown part is feces. It will normally be a bit smelly but it shouldn't knock you over. That can be a sign of parasites. When you can, try to get him into the vet. Bring a fecal sample for them and have that lump checked.

Hope I helped clear some things up for you. And I hope Carlos is enjoying his new life. Oh, and a bigger cage for Carlos is not a luxury, its a necessity! He really will appreciate updated living quarters.

 

[Angiecountrygirl]

Well all I can say is what a great thing you did to give this beardie a new home (I think it's sinful that someone had him 8-10 yrs and can just turn around and give him up like that, they didn't deserve him). I must admit I've only had my baby beardie for about 2mths, and he's doubled his size, it's amazing. I will say one thing- This site and the community here have helped me from day 1 when I was googling info on beardies beacause I was thinking about getting one - to how to set up a viv, to how to pick your beardie, to the care, food and any other questions. I love my beardie and while it can be expensive and take alot of time, it's so worth it... They are so amazing.
While I don't haveany idea what the lump is... I do know that you joining this sight will point you in the right direction and if you listen to the suggestions you won't regret it. I can't thank everyone hear enough and I'm sure once you get to know them- you won't ba able to either!
P.S. Good Luck... :wink: