New baby not eating or drinking

[EightFingers]

Hi everyone,

I recently got Toothless, a baby "fancy" bearded dragon from PetSmart. We got him last Thursday and he really hasn't ate much. I have a dubia colony and he eats 1 or 2 very small dubia a day. He won't take any water from his bowl and wont lick it up off his snout with I put a droplet there. His eyes are closed most of the time, but I believe my setup is correct. He spends most of his time on top of his wooden log, which is ~105 in the basking spot and gradients to 80 on the cool side. I have a hygrometer on order but do not know the humidity right now. Here are some pics of him from a few minutes ago, he looks relatively healthy and does jump around/climb when moved from his basking spot.

I hope this is just relocation stress and he will eat soon, he's starting to worry me (or I'm worrying myself). As I'm reading he should be eating dozens of dubia a day as a baby.

22" Reptisun T8 10.0
2x http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/heating-lighting/zoo-med-trade-reptile-value-pack-basking-spot-lamp-zid36-14834/cat-36-catid-500011?var_id=36-14834&_t=pfm%3Dcategory

Herpstat 2 keeping his upper basking spot at 105 and the cooler side 80. Light's turn on at 6:30am, turn off at 9pm.

I keep a constant supply of dubia available in case he wants to eat, but rarely does. I'm thinking of trying chicken baby food tonight. Anyone have any ideas?

http://s268.photobucket.com/user/Eight_Fingers/library/Toothless

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....that is a nice set up, lots of climbing spaces and your temps. + lights are good. There are a few things to consider when trying to determine why Toothless is acting lethargic. It may be what you said....relocation stress. The tank is huge + he may be overwhelmed and feel very insecure. Although it doesn't always make a difference, it's sometimes better to start off in a smaller tank or just have one level of living space with 1-2 long branches criss crossed. Another consideration....do you offer food in the tank or put him in a another feeding bin ? Some beardies won't eat that way. Or is that his little feeding bowl in the pic ? You might try dropping the dubia right near him one at a time until he starts gobbling them up [ hopefully ] Sometimes if you squish the bug + rub it lightly on the snout it will spark their interest.

Also to get him to drink, be sure to let the drips of water fall for on his snout like 10 seconds at a time, then wait, then repeat.

There's always the possibility that he is not well in some way....poorly bred, not good care at the store, possible parasites. But yes, you can try baby food to try to get nutrition in him. You might also try Phoenix worms.

 

[EightFingers]

Thank you for the reply! I will drop some water for a few seconds on his snout. I've just put a drop there and expected him to drink it. He was only at the store for under 48 hours at most. He wasn't even in the display case when I purchased him. I will also try baby food tonight. The little glass dish is his feeding bowl, right now with 8 or 9 dubia in it.

I did see a thread somewhere that I can take his feces and send it to someone on here to check out for $10. Does anyone know who this is? I'd like to rule out parasites immediately if possible.

 

[AHBD]

Yes, keep offering water daily like that so he doesn't get dehydrated. On the close up pics in the other thread I see that his platform looks like it's either slate/ceramic tile or plastic ? That area might be a bit too hot for him. I find that plain old branches for climbing are best for basking since they don't hold the heat like the tile or plastic. Babies seem to like to cling to things rather than stand on a platform.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Just some suggestions that might help (I think that perhaps he is stressed by the changes in his environment and people).

1) buy a 90 - 100 L tub for him for settling down in for now (a rearing tub) , he might be very overwhelmed by the enclosure he's currently in and this might be stressing him enough to go off eating. (He'll grow pretty quick and will be big enough to need the big enclosure in 6 - 8 months.)

2) make sure the feeder insects are the appropriate size for him (no bigger than the distance between his eyes is good guide - they roaches you are giving him might be too big for him and could be intimidating him.

3) if you have a particulate bedding, remove it, too much risk of impaction.

4) he might not like roaches, try small crickets, silkworms or gents (pheonex ? worms).

5) offer him grated and finely chopped vegs (and a little fruit) and greens fresh each morning and leave it for him to grase on all day and overnight, replacing at the same time each morning. (I gave my hatchies grated sweet potato & grated carrot + chopped raw peas and beans + chopped puk/buk choi along with water softened juvenile beardie pellets (mixed in) and softened Vetafarm Lizard pellets).

5) check the basking temperature , cool zone temp and warm zone temp (gradient) to ensure he's warm enough.

6) make sure the UV source provides sufficient UVA and UVB for desert dwelling reptiles.

7) wont hurt to offer him a nice toasty warm hide to sleep in at nighttime (by putting a thermostat controlled heatpad that sandwiched between 2 layers of ceramic tiles and set to 36-37oC) under the hide (will help him metabolise his food overnight).

My beardies very rarely drunk water from their water bowls when hatchies , juveniles and even less often now as adults, they preferred to sit in the water or use the water dish as their toilet (if it's under water it is not stinky .... cleavour little guys) ,so I eventually removed the water dishes from their enclosures and very occasionally give them water with eyedropper (in summer) , was told by very experienced local breeders that having a water dish in a beardie enclosure increases the humidity too much and can result in RIs, they should get enough moisture from their fruit and veg and live prey insects.
Just need to supplement the water intake for hatchies and little juveniles. Some give their beardies a light misting each day.

8) what AHBD suggests.

 

[EightFingers]

So he's still not eating...

I'm able to feed him baby food (chicken, he wont eat the squash) in very small amounts. He doesn't want to eat it for about 5 minutes then will start eating very slowly. He doesn't look at all lethargic or skinny. If he's on the ground, he bounces! Climbs around his cage all over but mostly in his basking spot, I don't see him move much except to perch somewhere.

I've bought wax worms, pinhead crickets, baby dubia, hard pellets (which I softened), soft juvenile food (both from PetCo) and greens. He won't touch any of it! He might eat 1 wax worm every other day. Wont touch crickets or dubia and I haven't seen him eat any greens.

I've put a background on the back of his tank, but I think he also needs one on the sides. I have a 40g tank I could put him in temporarily but do not have a smaller rearing tank. Would this be best? It's been sitting for about 9 years and used to home 2 water dragon, tons of buildup on the glass. I'm not opposed to doing this if it's best for him.

His tank bedding is 100% tile, with a tile covered in repti-carpet hot glued on it as a ramp to his basking platform/log.

He's definitely warm enough, but I noticed when I put in a CHE in place of a 2nd basking bulb, basking temps dropped 10-15 Degrees to the low 90s. I've been running both basking bulbs during the day, and replacing 1 with the CHE during night time to keep temps around very low 80s. These are controlled by a Herpstat 2. I manually turn on Reptisun T5 10.0 when I wake up and off at 9:30pm, the same time the herpstat basking light runs, CHE is 24/7. Around 105-110 basking to 80 from left to right, under the basking platform is very low 80s, inside hide under that goes high 70's. He has plenty of space to move around.

He had gunk in one eye that would he would barely open since I got him and 3 days ago I was able to get it out with a wet cotton swap. Since then, he's been opening both eyes and that seems much better.

He poops every other day, looks normal from what I understand.

Here's a pic from 2 days ago.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Re pinhead crickets, baby dubia , they are probably so small that he wont be interested in them or even recognise them as food. Also pin head crickets and roaches are lower nutrition content than larger versions of the same insect - more exoskeleton , less insect "meat" and he'd have to eat hundreds of pinhead crickets per day to get his protein needs.

I'd up the size of crickets , the best guide is the distance between Toothless's eyes, he can happily handle a cricket or roach up that's up to that long. (I'd be looking at what we classify as small crickets here (1/3 size (?)) and if they are no bigger than the distance between his eyes I'd use them and gut load them with adult beardie pellets and carrot and puk or buk choi greens.
I usually buy my crickets in bulk (700 at a time) and separate them into batches of 50- 70 in cricket tubs (I used to buy 10 - 12 tubs of medium or small crickets per week for my two beardies when they were little, and saved the tubs when the crickets had been used up).

You might need to get some HerpaBoost (a liquid slurry supplement) or similar to help him the best start in life.

Worth finding a supplier of silkworms and fresh mulberry leafs or silkworm chow (a powder that mix with water and nuke and then chill and shave off slivers to feed silkworms if you can't access a mulberry tree. Silkworms are great feeder insect for a growing hatchy or juvenile beardie and I've never heard of a beardy knocking back a nice juicey silkworm once they've tasted them.

If he wont eat them of his own bat , headfeeding is going to be necessary. Is pretty easy to do, just be prepared for a few fingertip nips (accidential) until he gets the hang of it.

Worth a visit to local hardware shop to buy a timer - I use the electronic type (no ticking) and you can then program it to turn on the lights and turn them back off each day and set and forget this aspect.
I have one timer for 5 enclosures and 10 lamps (5x Par38 spotties , 5x compact UV globes) via a big power board. Works perfectly.

 

[EightFingers]

Just wanted to let everyone know he seems to be adjusting well now! He ate 3 dubia for lunch and 5 for dinner last night then today he ate 9 dubia for lunch! Either he's starving or finally adjusting!! He was a very active guy over the weekend and I'm a happy father-of-dragon(s).

Yes, it's ok. You may now call me Sir Targaryen. Hmmm an iron throne climbing object seems like something Toothless needs.

Also, in order to help my dubia colony produce I order another 1000 XXS Dubia that I'll keep separate from the colony. If he's eating, he'll destroy my babes in the colony way to fast.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Can I suggest you buy some small and medium sized silkworms + some silkworm chow (if you don't know someone who has a (or know where there is a) big mulberry tree that you harvest leafs from to feed the silkworms.

If you offer silkworms to your baby (hatchie) beardie you'll be giving him a fantastic start in life as they extremely nutritious and full of calcium (almost perfect Ca/P ratio).

I don't know what size roaches (dubias) you are using, make sure that they are NOT TOO BIG for your little beardie because if he eats insects are too big it can harm him . GUIDE = insect NOT BIGGER that the distance between the baby beardie's eyes. Better off giving 4 small insects that he can easily eat and wont harm him than one or 2 big insects.
He should be eating live insects (I'd recommend SMALL crickets + small or medium silkworms) 2x to 3x per day (3x per day is better ! 3 small meals is better than 2 bigger meals with a long time between), back to 2x meals per day of live insects at about 4 months old and then 1x meal of insects from about 6-8months old.

Is really easy to raise silkworms - can raise them entirely on silkworm chow from eggs --> worms --> cocoons --> moths --> eggs and you can even blanch silkworms and keep the blanched worms for later.

 

[Dragongrlwi]

I got mine about the same size and he was eating 2-3 small crickets a day when his breeder said he was eating 5 per feeding. Agree, probably relocation stress. My bearded now happily gobbles 20 crickets per day and I can barely keep up! I was thinking with dubia, they probably fill up faster

 

[AHBD]

That's good to hear. Generally when they new, are still active but not eating much it can be chalked up to relocation stress. Sounds like he's now comfortable in his new place and his appetite is coming around nicely. Go Toothless !

In relation to comments about pinhead crix being too small, true pinheads [ which are barely larger than a flea ] definitely ARE too small and not worth buying. The thing is, many pet stores just call their small crix pinheads when they are in fact more like 1/4 inch. So pinheads are not actually being offered for sale at the stores, but are the 2-3 week crickets that are more like 1/4 inch already.

 

[PogoLover]

I am so glad to hear that yours started eating! Mine (got him 6 days ago) is still not eating that much . . . and he is shedding to boot. People say it's relocation stress - he is friendly and healthy looking and will drink water and eat some greens and a few crickets - but that's it. I bought some dubias which will arrive on Tuesday, so maybe he will like that better than crickets. I already have multiple pics of him with crickets on his head when he is ignoring them! And we have three people actively trying to feed him every couple hours all day long every day, so when they don't want to eat - they aren't going to eat. I have learned that lesson. Good luck - it sounds like you are over the stress hump!!!