Need info specifically for juvenile/sub-adults

[XtinaBeardieMom]

(You can skip the big paragraph below & just read the questions if you'd like.)

As some of you may know, my rescue girl Monster passed away two months ago due to sudden heart failure. I still have my other rescue girl Lotus - and though she's had her issues, she's been great lately & of course is my little princess majesty slave driver lol. Anyway, I think my boyfriend and I are ready at this point to bring another dragon home to our currently empty 4ft/75gal tank. We've been researching breeders since we very first became interested in dragons. Our original plan before we ever got the girls was to find male & female sub-adults. But then we saw our two rescue girls Lotus & Monster in the pet store and they claimed our hearts. Now we're looking to get a sub-adult make like our original plan. We think we may have found one from a good breeder, and he's local too (Jeff Salas @ Texas Dragon Lab). We're going to see the dragon & his breeding operation tomorrow and I'm so excited!! Anyway, the only dragons I'm experienced with have been adult females. This male we're looking at is about 9 months old so I have a lot of questions...

1. Is 9 months old considered juvenile, or sub-adult?
2. How well should a 9 month old dragon handle?
3. What should a 9 month old's diet look like? Sorry, but telling me X% greens and X% live feeders isn't really helpful. I don't see how a percentage can be established when it comes to plants versus insects. I need to know how many of what sized feeders he should be getting per day/week versus how well he should be eating his salads by now.
4. Is a 4ft/75gal tank too big for a 9 month old to feel comfortable in? I've read that babies are intimidated by large tanks, but I'm not sure about a dragon this age.
5. What should his supplementation schedule look like at this point in his life? I have everything available from liquid calcium, liquid vitamins, Acidophiliz probiotic, liquid vitamin B complex, bee pollen, herbal booster, liquid electrolytes, and liquid Serrapeptase. Can someone at least tell me how often he should get vitamins & calcium? I don't need help with dosage, just frequency by day/week.
6. Should I take him into the vet a few weeks after I bring him home? The breeder has agreed to collect a fecal sample for me to pick up when I come see him tomorrow, so I can get him tested for Adenovirus and parasites before finalizing the purchase. I plan on getting another fecal test after a few weeks, as my vet will just let me drop one off - but does he actually need to see the vet for an office visit? I'm sure traveling will be stressful, especially after a re-location, so I don't want to stress the dragon more than necessary.
7. My two dragon tanks are side-by-side & lined with cardboard on the sides, so Lotus and the male won't be able to see each other while in their tanks. However, they will inevitably see each other in passing when we're taking one or the other out of their tanks & putting them back in. Will the fact that they're opposite genders make them go crazy juat by being aware of each other's presence?
8. Are there any different/weird things in general that I should expect? Both concerning a male dragon, which I've never had - and considering I've only had adult dragons before.

Thanks for the potential help everyone! I consider myself pretty well educated concerning the care of my adult rescue girl (all thanks to you guys & this forum!) so I'm looking forward to the next step in my knowledge/experience with beardies. I'm still not ready to take on a baby or anything, but maybe one day! Thanks again

 

[AHBD]

Hi Xtina....you are very concsientious with your animals, and those are good questions. Some people consider a 9 month old both [ sub adult + juvie ], and there's no hard + fast rule. Keep in mind, at 9 months they can be anywhere from 13 -20 " already, yours will be somewhere in the middle no doubt. Don't worry too much about the extra supplements besides calcium [ 2-3 times per week, vit. once a week generally for a large juvie ] And for diet, you will want to keep it close to what the breeder has been feeding him. Introduce as many healthy veggies as you want....the dragon will decide what he wants within reason. Remember one thing about beardies, they have a HUGE abdominal cavity, and we shouldn't worry TOO much when they eat like a moose one day and not too much another day. I wouldn't take him for a vet visit if he's obviously healthy. Why spend the money, and relocation stress can be mistaken for a health problem and you don't want the vet prescribing something for no real health problem. As far as " going nuts ", my males have all been different, but they do, for the most part, react to a certain degree when they catch sight of a potential mate/rival, so expect some possible foot stomping, glass dancing and black bearding....also some dramatic veggie tossing if it gets in their path during a mini rampage. But some males remain pretty mellow even through their budding beardie manhood.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Christina,


You do an excellent job & any dragon living with you is so very lucky!
The 9 month old, is considered a juvenile still. Technically they really aren't considered an adult yet until they are at least 1 year even if they appear physically big enough to be an adult. Their reproductive systems are not fully mature until they are around 2. Though, their growth rate slows way down after 10 or so months, they will still continue filling out well into their 2nd year.

Everything in moderation is always the key! I usually recommend giving no more than 40-50 feeders per week after he or she turns 1 year of age. The growth rate wont be high enough to justify any more than that. They naturally slow down on their eating of insects around 8-10 months anyway, to begin eating a little more greens & vegetation.
A 75 gallon tank is perfect for a 9 month old dragon. He will have plenty of turnaround room to protect his tail.
The vitamins can be given 1-2 times per week when they are under one year, but once they turn a year you can decrease to once a week.
The frequency of the electrolytes should only be 1-2 times per week since they too have some vitamins in them. You don't want to overdo the vitamins. For variety, you can switch up between that & the vitamins. The bee pollen is B vitamins, but water soluble so they will not become toxic if given more frequently. The serrapeptase is a natural enzyme so it will not become toxic either & can be given more frequently, too.
The probiotics can be given here & there for GI distress as well as during medication rounds. It is always good to have them on hand.
The calcium can be given 5 or so per week when they are under one year, but once they turn a year, you can decrease that to 3 times per week with the exceptions of a dragon with metabolic bone disease.
Since you have a female, I would definitely keep the cardboard up on Lotus' tank so they can't see each other. They will be able to smell each other though. You may see more arm waving behavior, bobbing or black bearding, possibly.
I would give him a few weeks to calm down enough to allow his levels to be more acceptable when getting a fecal done on him, before taking him to the vet. I think he will be fine!

Let us know how things are going!

Tracie

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Hi Xtina....you are very concsientious with your animals, and those are good questions

Hello Christina,
You do an excellent job & any dragon living with you is so very lucky!

Awww, thank you guys so much!! That means a lot, coming from you two especially. My dragons are lucky to have you on their side as well. They would not be so well off without the help of you two and all of the other very knowledgeable and helpful members here at beardeddragon.org! (Special thanks to Alex and Cailyth for making the existence of this place possible.)

Anyway, that's great advice AHBD & Tracie - exactly the comprehensive information I was looking for! Thank you both so much for your help. If anyone else has more info to add concerning the specifics of my situation, please do! I'm sure plenty of you have had juvenile male dragons being that so many people raise them from a few weeks old... which I still don't see how you do it lol. I feel like I'll have to be a certified beardie expert before I can take on a baby hehe. Thanks again for the help everyone!!

 

[Drache613]

Hello Christina,

You are welcome, no problem.
I hope you are able to get your new little one soon.

Tracie

 

[sweetiepie9]

Congrats on your new dragon, he's going to be a great addition to your home. Tracie & AHBD have told you everything you need to know. I would just make sure veggies/salad are offered before bugs, because if my 5 had their way they would only eat bugs & some of them 10 per day & they're full adults. Just ask the breeder what he's been feeding your new beardie, that will give you a good idea of what he's used to.

Hopefully we'll see lots of pics & I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of your new male. Males are so funny, they love to show that they're the boss, especially with black bearding & bobbing their heads. When we first got Lonzo & he'd have outside time, he'd bob everything, all the furniture, windows, everything & that was without seeing Sweetie, either, as we only had the two at the time. We called it Lonzo's security check! So funny. So it should be interesting to see how your boy reacts to his new home.

Have fun!
Deb

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Deb, yes I'm very much looking forward to having a dragon with a more active personality. Of course I love my girl Lotus, but she's just a big couch potato so it'll be nice to experience something different lol! When we went to go see the dragon, he had a little dark spot right underneath his mouth. It didn't look anything like mouth rot or fungus, just a little raw spot. So I asked the breeder what it was and he said it was from him dragging his snout across the glass as he runs back and forth all day. As soon as he got put back in his tank, he went at doing that almost immediately, plus black bearding & head bobbing of course - he's certainly a feisty one! He even had a 4ft tank all to himself!! I was very impressed with the breeder's set-up in that aspect... plenty of space for all the dragons & everything was very clean. When we had the dragon out of his tank, he calmed down and snuggled up on my chest pretty instantly :love5:

Anyway, I asked the breeder about feeding & he told me that this is one of those dragons who won't stop eating as long as there's food in front of him (Lotus is the same way, so I understand - she does NOT know when to stop)! He said he had to separate this little guy from his clutch mates much earlier than usual because he was eating all the food & not letting the other baby dragons have any lol! He said he's pretty much been feeding him like his adults - greens every day & as much live food as he'll eat in 10mins every other day. This seems to have served him well so far, but I feel like a 9-month-old dragon should probably still be getting live food at least once every day... any thoughts on that?

 

[AHBD]

Deb is right about feeding greens first...it's a great habit to be make they have a good diet and keep a good feeding routine. As far as a 9 month old being fed as you described.....there are 2 ways to look at it. You can split that amount to feed him every day , but it's the same number of feeders....or just follow what he's used to. Really your preference. Keep in mind that this routine may be what keeps this dragon on his veggies. It sounds like a large, healthy dragon and we must remember that constantly stuffing a beardie can lead to health problems just like with every other critter on the planet, including us humans. Biggest isn't ALWAYS the best, just see how the small Asian people live long healthy lives [Until they start eating fast food like Amaricans LOL ! ] With a healthy dragon that has a good appetite, you don;t need to fret too much.

 

[patrickmb21]

Where in texas is Texas Dragon Lab located. Is it far from dallas?

 

[sweetiepie9]

I'm glad he's fiesty but still a cuddler & yes, you have the choice of stickly to the breeders feeding schedule or feeding him every day. At his age & size 1 feeding of live food a day is more than enough. Sounds like you have a very healthy dragon that likes to be out alot! He sounds like alot of fun. Will be looking forward to lots of pics. Any news on a name yet? And that he likes his salads, that is a big plus. He sounds like an eating machine! As for the snout, that can be removed with applications of pure cocoa butter. All mine have something like that, Lonzo's is the worst as I used to have a mesh top as a barrier & boy, did he always try to climb it to get out of the living room. Now I use something different, but he still has that bump. If it's just black & not a bump, it will wear off in time. But the cocoa butter works great, just make sure it's pure.
Have fun, bet you can't wait until Friday!
Deb

 

[gmtirrill]

Ok since i am in the same situration that you are in I have found that my two dragons are both considered sub-adults until they are 18 months old listedn to the feeding advise that was givin as for the cardboard wall that will not help the male will smell your female and give you more black beards and daily head bopping my male cant see her but he now head bobs everthing "hnhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" qoute drake my male dragon. oh by the way dont try to type with a dragon on your lap he will attempt to write himself just look at what mine did lol

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

More great advice, thanks so much everyone!! Some supplies I ordered for the new little guy is coming in the mail earlier than I thought, so we may be able to pick up our new "child" on Wednesday instead of Friday woohoo! Still no name yet, the boyfriend needs to hurry up on that lol

Where in texas is Texas Dragon Lab located. Is it far from dallas?

Texas Dragon Lab is located in Round Rock, TX... so it would be about a 3 hour drive for you. He does ship too though, so that may be an option

 

[sweetiepie9]

I love the bobbing, stomping & black bearding, you can smell the hormones in my place, with 5 males, you can just imagine. I've been bobbed, too :mrgreen: Didi, especially likes to make his opinion known to me when I don't let him out fast enough, or I let another of the boys out instead of him...they are just so funny. You'll enjoy the difference. No matter what you put in between their tanks, he'll know there's a female in the house, especially in the spring. It's the hormones, they leave a scent in the air that males can smell for miles. So don't worry, it'll just give him something to do. He sounds perfect for you & if you can pick him up Wednesday, all the better. And to be already a cuddlebum, isn't that wonderful!

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Thanks again for your help everyone! We ended up deciding to wait until Friday to pick up the little guy after all. I've been a bit under the weather lately and we needed more time to prepare. However, we do have a name picked out now!!! Drumroll please - and his name issssss...

Captain!!

Short for Captain Ahab from Moby Dick, but actually inspired by the Ahab line of Noodler fountain pens (which my boyfriend collects). We can't wait to bring little Captain home on Friday!! The name will certainly fit his personality from what we've already witnessed. I can already imagine myself calling him "Captain Crunch" as he munches away on some dubias teehee