need help fast! swollen eyes in mbd dragon

[khartley]

This is a rescue dragon, I don't have time for details ATM, doing everything I can to save him. Asking for advice from anyone who has experience with mbd and swollen eyes due to vitamin a. (Hypo...?)

Just came from vet who says it doesn't look good but he is sending pics to his friend who is world known reptile vet in Florida named Robert?

I won't know for a while. Please help. I'm at the store getting low vitamin à food top make him a slurry, he needs to eat.

 

[Taterbug]

Did you have blood work done on him?

 

[khartley]

No, just going off what the vet said and what I know from research. He said it looks metabolic, and he's been working with reptiles in California for 10 years, hasn't seen it in a dragon but dealt with it many times in tortoises. He wanted to speak with Robert before going any further.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

If the eyes are that swollen, it could also be due to improper lighting as well as hypovitaminosis A too. Try to find out the lighting specifics if possible for us, also.
Metabolic bone disease usually doesn't yield swelling of the eyes. It sounds like he is in pretty bad shape. I hope you can get him healthy, but let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[khartley]

It's Hercules, I have a thread about him on here somewhere that goes into detail, I'll find it. He was calcium deficient when I got him 4 months ago, got him somewhat better from that although he still has the deformities he gained 59g and was healthy and active and happy.

Saturday he refused to eat and had droopy eyes. Sunday morning his eyes were completely swollen shut. I turned his mercury vapor bulb off and just used ceramic heat for him on Sunday in case light was the problem, but unfortunately it isn't. I've read that this goes hand in hand with mbd. Possibly his body is not able to metabolize the vitamin a correctly.

His diet has consisted of crickets always dusted with calcium and occasionally with multi vitamin, superworms, horn worms, occasional mealworms and wax worms. For greens I feed mostly collard, some kale, mustard and turnip greens when I can find them, and occasional carrot squash and bell peppers.

I made him a slurry of jump start mixed with banana, strawberry, and apple with organic honey. I did this because I thought he might be more likely to want the fruit, and all 3 are low in vitamin a if that is the problem.

I'm just hoping someone who has dealt with this issue can give advice, because his time is very critical right now, he is lethargic and will not eat.

But he did have enough life to bite the vet. I will not be giving up on him.

 

[Zuzu]

): I'm sorry he isn't doing well. My first dragon passed from MBD.

If you can you should get some pheonix worms, they are very high in calcium and I heard they can really help with MBD. It sounds like you're feeding him pretty good. Make sure he's staying hydrated too, even offer something like some watermelon if you're not sure if he's drinking. Taking him outside for some natural sun and vitamins can also be good for him.

 

[khartley]

Unfortunately the weather hasn't been good enough to take him outside yet, I live in South Dakota. I have phoenix worms but he's refusing food. I'm syringe feeding him a slurry with milk thistle and charcoal, hoping to detox his liver before it shuts down.

Doug Mader gave him a poor prognosis. The vets have given up so I'm all he's got.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry about Hercules' condition, I know how stressful it can be.
I have never dealt with eye swelling due to metabolic bone disease. If he is not eating, cricital care powdered formula is very good with helping get some weight back on them. Have you tried that yet?
Which MVB were you using, the Powersun & how close was it to him?
Which vitamin are you using now, herptivite which has beta carotene?

If you have any pictures, please post them just so we can gt an idea of his condition. Be sure to keep him around 80 overnight, to help boost his immune system.
You can also try using some chamomile tea bags on his eyes, warmed & moistened, for a few minutes at night before he goes to sleep. Make sure it isn't too hot though, but it has a healing property that may help to bring some of the swelling down.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[khartley]

For any who don't know his story, here is my original post:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=214868

I have tried the critical care, as well as jump start. I have the jump start mixed into his slurry. I''m not sure exactly how far away his mercury bulb is, but I adjusted it using the temp gun, so before it was to where it was around 102, now I have it a little warmer. I've been keeping the ceramic on him at night.

Him Saturday night when he started having the droopy eyes and stopped eating.

This was how I found him Sunday morning and he continued to be this bad until today, Tuesday.

Last but not least...... this is him right now, Tuesday evening!

After the writer of the Reptile Medical book Dr. Mader and his former colleague Dr. Whalen basically said he's probably not going to live and there weren't many options that didn't involve allot of money, I took matters into my own hands, because it appeared I was all he had.

I don't want to be too hopeful, but since force feeding 2 things I knew to detox the body, it appears his swelling has gone down, his life and color are returning, and he is definitely in less pain. I am feeling more hopeful. Advice with anyone who has dealt with this is still much appreciated, I'm honestly just using my medical experience from ranching and my alternative health education, and basically winging it. I don't know what else to do. This morning after talking to the vet, I looked Hercules straight in his swollen eyeball and told him to stop trying to die because I wasn't going to let him. I hope I'm doing the right thing.

 

[CooperDragon]

Poor guy. You're doing the right thing. Thank you for trying to help him. Just do your best and try to give him as much care and happy times that you can. In my experience they are very tough animals and will fight as hard as they can if you give them love and resources. As far as the MVB goes, I wouldn't put it closer than about 12'' or so especially if he has limited mobility to self regulate UVB exposure. They can be pretty powerful and you don't want him to be caught up in an area with UVI over 3-5 or so in the basking area. If you need to increase the heat when it's that far out, it may be best to add a low wattage basking bulb to the mix to get your temps up.

 

[khartley]

I would say it's approximately 15 inches away from him.

Thank you all for the encouraging words. I just crammed two poor phoenix worms in his mouth. He's so mad at me right now, but I just want him to eat something... He seems to be perking up a little tho, but still extremely lethargic. Fingers crossed.

 

[CooperDragon]

15'' is fine. If you're getting 102 at that range then you should be in good shape. If he doesn't eat on his own, you may need to keep syringe feeding him to keep his energy and hydration up. The Carnivore Care is good but protein heavy. You can make a pretty good vegetable slurry based on collard greens with some extras in it like squash and green beans which would be nutritious.

 

[khartley]

I am continuing to syringe feed, a few drops every time I walk by. I can't remember what all I put in the slurry, but it seems to be helping although he hates it. I believed echinacea, coconut endosperm ( absolutely perfect food for new cells) and boswellia, which is frankincense. It has the proven ability to reset cancer cells, they are using it in Germany for brain tumors also. I figured it can't hurt. All this is mixed with kale and dandelion greens, as well as the activated charcoal.

I'm also putting sterile saline solution in his eyes multiple times a day. I can't think of anything else to do, but the waiting is absolutely excruciating.

 

[Zuzu]

It sounds like he is in really good hands. He is really lucky to have you! You both deserve some rest.

Here is a little gift sketch to keep you in good spirits:

 

[khartley]

Aw, thank you so much for that!