My girl is extremely ill. Someone please help?

[heatherryuk]

Hey guys. New to the form.
I am out of options and at the mercy of my vet. Astrid has been ill for a while, started with coccydia then her eating declined and she developed a yeast gut infection, 2 months of force-feeding and it all gets worse.
The medication they tried made her sick (can find out all the names I have all the sheets) but then I managed to get her to keep NYSTAN down for 5 days straight I re-contacted vets for the next step, I forget some of the middle I've been very stressed as I work in a vetenairy hospital (doesn't deal with exotics)but basically I noticed swelling in front forearms and back feet. Took her right to the vets and try run blood test, smear of sample from swelling and poo sample was tested.
150-500 is the normal uric acid level and it was 1700, she still has the yeast infection ontop of that.

Hospitalised for 7 days (due to the uric acid), and confirmed to be having GOUT, catheter was put in her tail and one of her swollen legs were relieved of the pressure (they did end up doing the other one after a few days once the tests were back initially) they put her on intense funds for the uric acid and used critical care for omnivores along with other meds and painkillers, stopped painkillers after a few days and then just looked after her while waiting on the tests and feeding her food and meds.

She is back home, limp tail that I have been told to massage, slightly sunken in eyes and injections to go into her back leg muscles (an antibiotic) along with stuff for the gout allopurinol.

I still offer her fresh veggies and fruit daily and try encourage eating but it always ends up syringe fed.


Her brother is in the same tank set up he's a big happy healthy beardie once he cleared his coccydia (they had coccydia due to the breeders).

I am running out of steam guys are the vets doing the right thing for my poor girl? If you need any details in try answer as best as I can, thankyou any help would be fantastic shes only coming up to a year old :'(

P.s sorry it's all over the place I am really having a hard time just now and I've already spent £300 in vet bills.

 

[EllenD]

Oh my, what a nightmare for her and for you. I'm so sorry you've had to go through this all, it is all over the place, but let's take it one thing at a time...First off, is this vet a certified or experienced reptile vet, or just a general or "exotics" vet?

So it started with a Coccidia infection, but do you know what her Coccidia load was? Most reptile vets will not treat coccidia unless the count is in the moderate to high range because they all have a low count of Coccidia in their gastrointestinal tracts. What medication was she given for the Coccidia? And did she have a follow-up fecal test after she finished the med? Was her count back to normal after the treatment?

The yeast infection she developed was no doubt caused by the medication they gave her to treat the Coccidia (I'm really hoping the Coccidia medicine was an Antiprotozoan and not an antibiotic)...We, or at least I do, typically recommend that any time your beardie is put on a medication, whether it be an Antibiotic, Antiprotozoan, Antifungal, or Antiparasitic that you also put them on daily probiotics. The probiotics will settle their stomachs from the meds, help their bowel movements stay regular, and most importantly will replace the normal, healthy bacteria that lives in their gastrointestinal tracts and keeps fungal infections, like yeast infections, at bay during the treatments. I'm assuming that you were not given any probiotics? What medication was she given to treat the yeast infection? Nystatin? How long was she on that, and did it get rid of the yeast infection?

 

[AHBD]

Posted at same time as Ellen. Oh my, I really feel for you + your poor Astrid. Do you have an extra tank to put the male in ? Even if you could set up a large plastic storage tote with lights rigged on top it would be good.

So how was her appetite before the coccidia meds. ? Was it Albon that was given or Baycox ? Albon is very harsh and can kill the appetite.

I don't think the antibiotic injections should be given while she has gout, and she should be on a probiotic like Benebac or soy [ non dairy ] yogurt to replenish the gut flora. The meds. she's been on have depleted them, probably the cause of the yeast infection. Allopurinol is the med. to be used for gout, and dark cherry extract may help.

So I think you should stop the injections + start her on the probiotic.

A red flag about this vet is the advice to rub the tail because it's " limp." ....never heard of such a thing. If you can post pics of her full body and her tail it may be helpful. Here's how to post pics.


https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload
Hopefully we can get some help for your girl.

 

[EllenD]

Obviously she has gout, which is becoming very common in bearded dragons, unfortunately, and Allopurinol typically works very, very well to treat it. Did they recommend Black Cherry Juice/Extract or Serapeptase as a pain and swelling reliever? Silkworms?

So she's home now, after having fluid drained from her limbs caused by the gout, and on Allopurinol, which is the correct treatment for gout and it will help soon...What dose of Allopurinol is she given, and how often? And she's also on an antibiotic now? What Antibiotic, and why is she on it specifically? I'm confused about this, because I didn't see anything about a bacterial infection anywhere...And I'm assuming that a fecal test has shown a normal coccidia count and the yeast infection was shown to be gone? I just want to see where we are at overall here.

Gout is very treatable, and it seems she is on the correct treatment for that, the Allopurinol, as long as her dose is correct...But I think she's been over-medicated as well as possibly given the wrong meds throughout this whole thing, we'll see when you give us that info...So how is she feeling now? Is she eating normally, basking and moving around normally? Any black bearding? Are we now down to treating just the gout and dehydration (sounds like dehydration to me) and that's it, or are there currently other infections (hence the Antibiotics)?

 

[heatherryuk]

Yeah it is a certified vets it was high coccidia count and she was treated with baycox I am losing trust in my vet she should be feeling better.
Her coccidia count is back to no coccidia found so thats good?
Uh when she was being treated with the baycox I was giving her reptiboost and critical care.She was medicated with Nystatin and Septrin at the same time, I have just raked out all the meds she was on.
Yeast still present due to the fact when it was both those drugs she was sick, then she was sick on just the septrin so vet told me to stop for the weekend then re-try nystan for 5 days without her vomiting. And now they are trying to sort the gout and stop/reduce the swelling.

Oh my, what a nightmare for her and for you. I'm so sorry you've had to go through this all, it is all over the place, but let's take it one thing at a time...First off, is this vet a certified or experienced reptile vet, or just a general or "exotics" vet?

So it started with a Coccidia infection, but do you know what her Coccidia load was? Most reptile vets will not treat coccidia unless the count is in the moderate to high range because they all have a low count of Coccidia in their gastrointestinal tracts. What medication was she given for the Coccidia? And did she have a follow-up fecal test after she finished the med? Was her count back to normal after the treatment?

The yeast infection she developed was no doubt caused by the medication they gave her to treat the Coccidia (I'm really hoping the Coccidia medicine was an Antiprotozoan and not an antibiotic)...We, or at least I do, typically recommend that any time your beardie is put on a medication, whether it be an Antibiotic, Antiprotozoan, Antifungal, or Antiparasitic that you also put them on daily probiotics. The probiotics will settle their stomachs from the meds, help their bowel movements stay regular, and most importantly will replace the normal, healthy bacteria that lives in their gastrointestinal tracts and keeps fungal infections, like yeast infections, at bay during the treatments. I'm assuming that you were not given any probiotics? What medication was she given to treat the yeast infection? Nystatin? How long was she on that, and did it get rid of the yeast infection?

 

[heatherryuk]

What is the best way to reply on these sites? Sorry I can only seem to quote to sort out different answers.
They are in separate 4ft tanks but same set up and temps and the male is fully healthy and recovered, she was treated with baycox.
I had a feeling the injectons were not an amazing idea, should I refer her to a better specialist?
She is not due any injections till Sunday and she is booked in for a vet to check her on monday.
where can I get black cherry extract?

They said its limp due to the catheter and the bandage and I have to massage it. I am so worried.

Posted at same time as Ellen. Oh my, I really feel for you + your poor Astrid. Do you have an extra tank to put the male in ? Even if you could set up a large plastic storage tote with lights rigged on top it would be good.

So how was her appetite before the coccidia meds. ? Was it Albon that was given or Baycox ? Albon is very harsh and can kill the appetite.

I don't think the antibiotic injections should be given while she has gout, and she should be on a probiotic like Benebac or soy [ non dairy ] yogurt to replenish the gut flora. The meds. she's been on have depleted them, probably the cause of the yeast infection. Allopurinol is the med. to be used for gout, and dark cherry extract may help.

So I think you should stop the injections + start her on the probiotic.

A red flag about this vet is the advice to rub the tail because it's " limp." ....never heard of such a thing. If you can post pics of her full body and her tail it may be helpful. Here's how to post pics.


https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload
Hopefully we can get some help for your girl.

 

[heatherryuk]

I said she had gout the "obviously" part is making me feel thick. They didn't recommend either of them to me or silkworms.
The limbs are still a bit swollen, the dose of the allopurinol is 0.09ml orally once daily.
The injections are too be every 3 days and its called Fortum. Coccidia was fine and yeast still there when they last did it.Like I said she had been syringe fed for 2 months with a slowly declining appetite leading up to that point.
Dark beard at times she is moving about a bit better after they relieved some of the fluid but not amazingly well.

Obviously she has gout, which is becoming very common in bearded dragons, unfortunately, and Allopurinol typically works very, very well to treat it. Did they recommend Black Cherry Juice/Extract or Serapeptase as a pain and swelling reliever? Silkworms?

So she's home now, after having fluid drained from her limbs caused by the gout, and on Allopurinol, which is the correct treatment for gout and it will help soon...What dose of Allopurinol is she given, and how often? And she's also on an antibiotic now? What Antibiotic, and why is she on it specifically? I'm confused about this, because I didn't see anything about a bacterial infection anywhere...And I'm assuming that a fecal test has shown a normal coccidia count and the yeast infection was shown to be gone? I just want to see where we are at overall here.

Gout is very treatable, and it seems she is on the correct treatment for that, the Allopurinol, as long as her dose is correct...But I think she's been over-medicated as well as possibly given the wrong meds throughout this whole thing, we'll see when you give us that info...So how is she feeling now? Is she eating normally, basking and moving around normally? Any black bearding? Are we now down to treating just the gout and dehydration (sounds like dehydration to me) and that's it, or are there currently other infections (hence the Antibiotics)?

 

[heatherryuk]

What do I do now guys? I am a mess with tears I want my girl to live and do well.. should I go to the other vets, its the Royal (Dick) vetinary hospital in Edinburgh close to where I live and get a referral or see how the vet appointment goes and list my concerns by noting all the replies, I am scared for her.

 

[AHBD]

It's O.K, you're doing great with replies. Can you post pics as I showed in the link ?

Is her weight pretty good [ not losing too much } And yes, it's great that the coccidia is gone.

But do not rub the tail....this will only aggravate or cause pain to a wound. I think she was over mrdivcated + needs a break from everything except to Allopurinol.

Let her get a break to give her a chance to get her appetite back. It's a known fact that too many meds. + too much fussing with those procedures will cause great stress which will inhibit recovery.

So it's good that the coccidia is gone, I'd give her a break from the stressful medicating now.

 

[EllenD]

I totally agree, she needs the Allopurinol for the gout, but stop everything else...Did you mention why the new Antibiotic was started? I don't know why they would prescribe the Antibiotics for gout, but she's been completely over medicated and on the wrong things...I think she'll start to feel much better once she's off of everything and she starts to see the Allopurinol take effect.

I would absolutely start giving her a daily dose of probiotics, either a probiotic made specifically for reptiles, or if she'll eat it Soy Yogurt with live and active cultures. If you can find a liquid acidophilus that would work wonderfully, as long as it's not dairy based. The probiotics will help to settle her stomach, get her normal, healthy bacteria back at the correct counts, and that should naturally help to rid the yeast infection. No more medicines like an antifungal for yeast or an antibiotic for gout...It's unnecessary and in my opinion it's what has made her sick all this time, besides the Gout. The gout is very treatable with the Allopurinol, and if just giving her the Allopurinol along with a daily probiotic you should see an improvement pretty quickly. Also, it's very important to keep her very hydrated while having a gout flare up, the extra hydration will help her kidneys. You might want to pick up some unflavored Pedialyte or whatever hydration solution for infants/kids is available near you. I'm sure Pedialyte is available in the UK. You can either drip it on her snout to lick off, or put it in a bowl if she drinks from a bowl, or even mix it with the Soy Yogurt and syringe feed it with the critical care (which is a great nutritional supplement to give her if she's not eating on her own, so I would continue the critical care feedings, you could mix a probiotic in with the critical care and use the unflavored Pedialyte instead of water to mix it up). The extra hydration and electrolytes will help the Gout, as will Black Cherry or Tart Cherry Juice/Extract if you can find it, it helps relieve the swelling and pain, as it contains serapeptase..Serapeptase is found naturally in silkworms but can be purchased online as a supplement as well that you can also add to the critical care. It is a natural gout pain reliever and inflammation reducer.

I know you're overwhelmed, but you've gotten some bad advice and your poor beardie has been given a lot of unnecessary medication that has made her worse, like the yeast infection...Oh, that's another reason to stop all the Antibiotics, not only are they unnecessary if she has no bacterial infection, but they will make the yeast worse, while the probiotics will reduce the yeast. I can't believe they didn't mention probiotics or any of the natural gout remedies in addition to the Allopurinol, they seem to really help a lot. Like we already said, the gout is very treatable and Allopurinol will start helping soon, and the probiotics, extra hydration, and serapeptase plus stopping all the other unnecessary meds will also help soon. And yeah, don't rub her tail, that's very odd...What is actually wrong with her tail from the catheter?

 

[heatherryuk]

I have uploaded pictures, do I have to link them all? how does it work sorry
Her tail is skinnier from where they had the catheter in.
her weight is a tad low I will check again tomorrow my scales need batteries
I will be careful with her tail its just floppy I will be contacting vets first thing in the morning.

It's O.K, you're doing great with replies. Can you post pics as I showed in the link ?

Is her weight pretty good [ not losing too much } And yes, it's great that the coccidia is gone.

But do not rub the tail....this will only aggravate or cause pain to a wound. I think she was over mrdivcated + needs a break from everything except to Allopurinol.

Let her get a break to give her a chance to get her appetite back. It's a known fact that too many meds. + too much fussing with those procedures will cause great stress which will inhibit recovery.

So it's good that the coccidia is gone, I'd give her a break from the stressful medicating now.

 

[AHBD]

Her body condition looks over all good as far as weight but yes, the leg looks swollen. I'm not sure if there's any problem with the tail from the catheter....hopefully it's just slightly indented from where the tape/bandage were holding the catheter. It should be O.K

Black beard indicates stress and discomfort but no wonder from what she's been through. She DOES still look bright eyed at least that's a good sign.

Is she eating anything on her own, and what are you offering her ? If it's only via syringe, does she take it willingly ? Is the Allopurinol mixed with the Critical Care ? I'd personallly let her rest at home + give her the Allopurinol + syringe feeding with extra hydration + some probiotics and bee pollen and lay off the vet visits for now.

 

[heatherryuk]

I think the Fortum injections was for the yeast infection? but I am unsure I feel left in the dark. I have had no real explanations and I am awaiting a callback from the vets.
She has had probiotics (critical care) and she was taking it more willingly today and licking it off the end of her nose.
I shall try get a hold of pedialyte and some non dairy soy yoghurt.
I had no idea that Serapeptase is found naturally in silkworms I will try get silkworms or serapeptase.

Her tail is completely limp and I have added pictures of it.

@EllenD

 

[heatherryuk]

She is a bit lighter than she should be but I know it will get better when she starts feeling a bit better.
Both the legs are pretty puffy but the allopurinol should help that?
The fact her tail is limp and she has no use of it is concerning though or will it be okay with a bit of time?
Bright eyed keeps me hopeful she is a stubborn beardie, her eyes are a little sunken in so could that be caused by dehydration?

Only via syringe. She has been geting reptiboost, critical care, mushed up bugs (mealworms, roaches and waxworms) + veg and its not very willingly she gets grumpy. Its all the juices I get from it but I was going to try using my blender?

Her body condition looks over all good as far as weight but yes, the leg looks swollen. I'm not sure if there's any problem with the tail from the catheter....hopefully it's just slightly indented from where the tape/bandage were holding the catheter. It should be O.K

Black beard indicates stress and discomfort but no wonder from what she's been through. She DOES still look bright eyed at least that's a good sign.

Is she eating anything on her own, and what are you offering her ? If it's only via syringe, does she take it willingly ? Is the Allopurinol mixed with the Critical Care ? I'd personallly let her rest at home + give her the Allopurinol + syringe feeding with extra hydration + some probiotics and bee pollen and lay off the vet visits for now.

 

[heatherryuk]

So she was straining for a poo this morning and yellow stuff came out and that was it? What the heck is that? :shock:

Also this is the list of all the stuff they gave her while hospitalized just incase this helps at all?