My Beardie

[srogers896]

I am at a lost. My beardie has been fussy about food for about 2 months. I asked everyone local that has beardies or experience with them. I was told nothing to worry about its normal. Well about 2-3 weeks ago. She stopped eating all together for 2 days, and had definitely lost weight which I had noticed before she stopped eating completely but everyone told me it was normal. I rushed her to the only reptile vet in the area. He checked her all over. She only weighed 2grams. He said she was to small to get bloodwork. He put her on antibiotic shots every 3 days. She got a total of 4 of them. He also had me start force feeding her 3 times a day. Her last visit she did gain some weigh now weighing 2.6grams.. He said he had no clue what is going on just keeping doing what I have been. That was about week ago. I am still force feeding her and giving her some water as well, she wont eat on her own or drink. She doesn't move around very much. Doesn't care to bask for very often. She is just a year old about 12inches long. Always has been small for her age. Her tank is 30L with 150watt basking bulb (basking spot stays around 110degrees), and repti sun 10.0 UVB both bulbs are 2-3weeks old. I change them every 4-6months or sooner if they blow. She is on carpet.. her main diet was Crickets, and kale. with apple, cucumber and carrot for snacks. also a couple meal worms...

I am at a lost of what to do or what is going on with her. I have read online to give her pedalyte for hydration haven't got some yet. Can anyone help me? She has had proper care since I bought her...

 

[Tonja]

Are using the coil or compact bulbs and is your reptisun a tube light? DO you have the reptisun on top of the screen or mounted inside the tank where she can get to within 6-8 inches of it? Make sure there is no plastic covering her UVB bulb as the uvb cant pass through it. Are you using calcium and vitamins..calcium one feeding a day for 5 days and vitamins one feeding per 2 days? 2.6 grams is awfully small. I would stop the mealworms all together as they have a hard chitin shell and hard for a beardie to digest. I would also stop the kale and go to collards, mustard or turnip greens. Kale binds calcium making it hard for them to utilize. Her feeders should be no larger than the space between her eyes and she should eat as much as she wants in a 10-15 minute period of time. Is she pooping ok and are you giving her baths for hydration?

 

[Jaskotch]

It's frustrating when the vet doesn't really help, isn't it. Did they do a fecal? Why were antibiotics indicated?
It has been my [admittedly limited] experience that beardies really slow down at the 8 - 12 month age and eating habits can change radically. As in, their growth rate has slowed to the point that they simply don't need to eat like they did up to that point. That, I would agree with your local friends, is normal. Weight loss however is not normal. If in a slow down or semi brumating state, they most certainly should not be losing weight. Oh, maybe a few grams here or there, but certainly not significant so that you'd be noticing it. I think (hope?) you must've had a typo there on the reported weight of 2 grams? I actually got my beardie when he was longer than yours, but judging from his weight history I'm guessing that 12" should equate to something more like 100+ grams? At any rate, weight loss indicates a problem, and one that, at your beardies size, probably needs figured out as a top priority.
You didn't mention calcium or vitamins, have you been providing these supplements? Prior to your recent forced feedings, how has your dragon been hydrated? baths?
How are you measuring the temperatures in the environment?
Kale is really ok only for occasional feedings, because it does have substances in it that make calcium less available to the body and that inhibit thyroid function. Check out this page for info on feeding: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html
Hopefully some more people will chime in…….

 

[zye1984]

how the TC is talking about the vet is exactly how my experience has been. I hope your beardie gets better, as well as my own!

 

[srogers896]

Hopefully I answer all you asked. The weight was 2ounces at arrival and 2.6ounces last visit. Srry about that.. Vets never said why the antibiotics he said we will try her on this.. Last visit they said if she gets worse bring her back but keep doing what I am. She has some weight but not much and not eating or drinking.
Yes she got the vitamin supplements on her food. She didn't care for the on the crickets but would eat it on her food... She also got mustard green, collard greens and endive. escarole. She didn't care for a lot of types of greens and kale is the one she liked the most. But yes she got a variety of things sorry I didn't say that... I only have a reg. house thermometer for temp... I sprayed her. She would get bathes occasionally and she has water in front of her daily.
The UVB is the tube...... and again mealworms were only a treat. she rarely got them... and she has never got crickets any bigger than what they are suppose to be for her size.... She has been very well cared for.

 

[Jaskotch]

Well you haven't mentioned anything about her having any respiratory issues, so I'm not saying what you're doing regarding hydration is wrong, or that I haven't seen care videos that promote the practice of spraying in the tank or providing water in a dish in the tank, but what I will say is that beardies don't need humidity and it can be harmful to them, especially in closed places such as aquariums - so spraying the tank or even spraying her when she's in the tank could be bringing that humidity up to where it's not, shall we say, helpful… I have never seen my beardie drink water out of a dish or even out of his bath, so leaving a water dish in the tank also probably isn't particularly helpful. In my opinion at least, the best way to hydrate is to soak in a bath for a set amount of time several times a week… and when you're not feeling well often the first best thing to do is to hydrate, and hydrate well! It probably isn't the issue you're having, but it could only help the situation.
I would certainly want to have a fecal done and determine if she's got a heavy parasite load. That's an appetite killer, for sure.
And along with the vitamins, remember to dust with calcium. Strong bones and all that!

 

[srogers896]

Spray only a few times a week. and I have seen both of my beardies drink from a water dish daily.

Vet said he couldn't do any tests cause she was to small and if she had parasites the antibiotic/vitamin shots she was given would take care of them.
The dust I have is calcium/vitamin combo.

 

[Jaskotch]

Antibiotics do not kill parasites… they really should be administered only for known bacterial infections.
What you need to do is have a fecal flotation done. All it requires is a poop from your beardie. No beardie is too small to poop. Your vet doesn't need to even see the beardie again. Just take in a poop (well, call first!). Hopefully if the vet is a reptile vet, they know how to do a fecal flotation and check for things commonly found in beardies, such as pinworms and also coccidia. Good luck!

 

[srogers896]

Well ill have to wait for her to poo again and give them a call. but that is what they told me last time

 

[Taterbug]

Your dragon sounds very small, 74g and 12" is a bit unusual for a one year old. I agree you should try to get a fecal sample, but to hold off on addition medications unless it's diagnosed. Do you track her weight at home? What does the vet have you feeding her? I'm not sure what you mean by house thermometer, but it may be helpful to check her temps with a IR temp gun or digital thermometer. A 30L is a small tank and she may be avoiding the basking spot if it is too hot for her.

Generally it's best not to use antibiotics or any medication with out a diagnosis as they can be tough on a reptiles system, and most wormers are given orally. The drugs used to treat certain parasites are classified as antibiotics. (Albon, flagyl and some others are antibiotics) drugs and stress can put her further off her food.

I hope she starts to feel better soon.

As a side note;
Dragons actually do need humidity, just not very high. 30-50% is a good range and is actually somewhat hard to keep in the winter in most areas. Spraying to much in a fish tank style enclosure can be a problem but usually the open screen lid helps all the moisture escape relatively quickly. Whether you see them use it or not, it's not unreasonable to provide a water dish, it's highly unlikely to raise humidity but should be cleaned daily to prevent the water from fouling.

 

[srogers896]

As I said she has always been small... My other beardie was purchased by a friend from the same pet store 2yrs ago and he is smaller than my female but nice and fat chunky.... I have done all the right by her. Her tank isn't to small she has plenty of room and she has a cool side and her (warm) basking side. She does go to her basking but not a lot since she has been ill. So I put her in it after I feed her. She bask for a few then moves down lower. She is very well taken care of. I came on this group for help and advice not to be belittled and to make this look like it is all my fault. So I will be leaving the group and I do hope the admins remove my post. I will just keep researching and hope I find something to help my girl. People really shouldn't make others feel like crap when they ask for help.

 

[Taterbug]

As I said she has always been small... My other beardie was purchased by a friend from the same pet store 2yrs ago and he is smaller than my female but nice and fat chunky.... I have done all the right by her. Her tank isn't to small she has plenty of room and she has a cool side and her (warm) basking side. She does go to her basking but not a lot since she has been ill. So I put her in it after I feed her. She bask for a few then moves down lower. She is very well taken care of. I came on this group for help and advice not to be belittled and to make this look like it is all my fault. So I will be leaving the group and I do hope the admins remove my post. I will just keep researching and hope I find something to help my girl. People really shouldn't make others feel like crap when they ask for help.

I am very sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I was offering suggestions based on your descriptions, I in no way intended to make you feel bad. I didn't suggest nor do I think what's going on is your fault or that you have done wrong by her, I doubt the other posters do either.

The folks on this forum are honestly trying to help. Many problems come down to husbandry, so it's the first thing people double and triple check. Other things need to be diagnosed by a vet, and not all vets are very well versed in reptile care. sometimes they make judgements based on other animals that aren't the best course of action in reptiles. I'm sorry you felt judged by my or anyone else's responses, I do hope you find out what's going on with your girl and that she starts to feel better.

 

[srogers896]

The vet is the only one in the area who looks at reptiles. Sad but true. I am going to see if they will check her stool for me. I just ordered her some oxbow carnivore care offline should be here in a 3-5days in the meantime the vet gave her hills prescription cat/dog a/a or something like that. I have read about baby food but also read that isn't the best either hence I ordered the above. She gets 10 minute soaks a day.

My male who is about 2yrs old (maybe little older) is only like 10-11inches and fat. The people bought him from same place I did. So curious if its genetics for their size and not growing bigger.

 

[Taterbug]

Finding a good reptile vet is very challenging and sometimes just can't happen due to location. I feel your pain, and it's been my personal motivation to learn more, since I've been in the position of getting poor advice/treatment from vets and there aren't too many options around here either. Hopefully they can run the check for you, if not there are some mail in places that do as well.

The critical care is much better than either baby food or dog/cat food. They have a herbivore blend as well, but the carnivore should suit just as well. Baby food has less nutritional balance than the critical care does, though it's easier to get ahold of.

As for the size, there could very well be genetics at play. There is a wide range of body sizes and builds, but that size is rather small for a standard bearded dragon of that age. Rankins dragons are a similar species that max out at about that size (though they are less common to find) and hybrids of the two that are somewhere between (not sure how common though). Even if your dragons are regular bearded dragons, they could very well be perfectly healthy and just small.

 

[srogers896]

I found the herbivore blend too. I ordered that one too. Would switching off between the two for feedings be the best???
I'll see if I can share some pics with you all..