Mealworms?? New Beardie Owner

[Kristen623]

Hello, I have a 4 month old baby leatherback beardie who I've had for 1 week now. I was browsing through some posts on here & saw that someone posted something about mealworms aren't good to feed beardies. It can cause impaction? I've been feeding Rango mealworms all week. Should I stop immediately? What is a safe worm to feed him instead? When I go to Petco to get crickets, I was told by an employee there that mealworms were fine to feed him. Sorry if this is a repeat question. I tried to browse further through older posts, but couldn't find the info.

Thanks,
Kristen

 

[AllanonsWrath]

Read through my caresheet. (link in sig) There's good feeding information there. There is also a link to a good website for feeder types and how often you should feed them.

 

[Kristen623]

OK... I forgot about the care sheet. I will go there now! Thanks

 

[ShannyBeard]

Congrats on the new bearded dragon! Aren't they awesome?? And welcome to bd.org. I have never feed mealworms to a bearded dragon, so I can't give you any advice on it causing impaction. I can tell you what other people say, but to be honest I would just be repeating what you have already read, which is kinda useless. LOL

Here is my opinion of mealworms. Every worm has a different nutritional value. I look at all of the worms that are available as feeders, and I have chosen a few to give a varied diet and to cover all the nutritional needs. Mealworms are high in phosphorous. When you feed a diet high in phosphorous, it unbalances the dragon's diet with respect to calcium. Calcium is extremely important for proper organ function, especially the cardiac system and the liver. A dragon's body will naturally try to keep a certain level of calcium in its bloodstream. If it is unable to get that calcium into the bloodstream from diet and systhesis of Vitamin D3 from UVB lighting and supplements, it will take calcium from the bones. That is how dragons and other reptiles get metabolic bone disease.

The ideal diet for a bearded dragon will have a calcium to phosphorous ratio of 2:1. That is 2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorous. A mealworm's calcium to phosphorous ratio is 1:25! That's the worst ratio of any feeder out there.

This is why I don't feed mealworms. It's not because people talk about their hard shells and them being hard to digest. There are people who claim to have fed their dragons hundreds of mealworms over the years and have never had impaction.

It's the science behind the nutritional requirements of bearded dragons that steers me away from this feeder.

You can feed crickets, dubia or discoid roaches, silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, black soldier fly larvae (Repti-Worms) and the occasional waxworm treat. They are all much better in that ratio. Actually the butterworm is naturally high in calcium and so is the black soldier fly larvae. Silkworms and hornworms have a wonderful ratio, and crickets are 1:12, which isn't all that great, but when combined with other feeders in a balanced diet they are just fine to feed.

I hope I have helped! :mrgreen:

 

[Kristen623]

This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for your help. I called the reptile store I bought Rango from & asked them what worms they have available & they said superworms, silkworms and occasionally Phoenix worms. I checked the caresheet again, which I thought just had veggie info, but it actually listed some of the worms too. This website is great!!! I'm learning so much from everyone & getting such great advice! My sister told me I'm "obcessed" with my dragon & that I found a new hobby with my kids. I think she's right!!

 

[ShannyBeard]

My sister told me I'm "obcessed" with my dragon & that I found a new hobby with my kids. I think she's right!!

Join the club of beardie owners who have a passion for their little sweeties. Aren't they just the most adorable lizards? I never thought I would ever 'cuddle' with a lizard before, but here I am...LOL :love5:

 

[dragonlover3]

Congrats on the new bearded dragon! Aren't they awesome?? And welcome to bd.org. I have never feed mealworms to a bearded dragon, so I can't give you any advice on it causing impaction. I can tell you what other people say, but to be honest I would just be repeating what you have already read, which is kinda useless. LOL

Here is my opinion of mealworms. Every worm has a different nutritional value. I look at all of the worms that are available as feeders, and I have chosen a few to give a varied diet and to cover all the nutritional needs. Mealworms are high in phosphorous. When you feed a diet high in phosphorous, it unbalances the dragon's diet with respect to calcium. Calcium is extremely important for proper organ function, especially the cardiac system and the liver. A dragon's body will naturally try to keep a certain level of calcium in its bloodstream. If it is unable to get that calcium into the bloodstream from diet and systhesis of Vitamin D3 from UVB lighting and supplements, it will take calcium from the bones. That is how dragons and other reptiles get metabolic bone disease.

The ideal diet for a bearded dragon will have a calcium to phosphorous ratio of 2:1. That is 2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorous. A mealworm's calcium to phosphorous ratio is 1:25! That's the worst ratio of any feeder out there.

This is why I don't feed mealworms. It's not because people talk about their hard shells and them being hard to digest. There are people who claim to have fed their dragons hundreds of mealworms over the years and have never had impaction.

It's the science behind the nutritional requirements of bearded dragons that steers me away from this feeder.

You can feed crickets, dubia or discoid roaches, silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, black soldier fly larvae (Repti-Worms) and the occasional waxworm treat. They are all much better in that ratio. Actually the butterworm is naturally high in calcium and so is the black soldier fly larvae. Silkworms and hornworms have a wonderful ratio, and crickets are 1:12, which isn't all that great, but when combined with other feeders in a balanced diet they are just fine to feed.

I hope I have helped! :mrgreen:

The short and minor answer offered to the mealie question is no, don't feed them as you take the chance of possibly having an impaction due to the chitin but many people feed their beardies meal worms without ever having any impaction problems at all! However, the risk for impaction is there.

The more educated, nutritious and scientifically relevant answer is ShannyBeard's EXCELLENT post. That is the more important reason not to use them, the calcium to phosphorous ratio ....You are awesome and educational too, Shannon

 

[agordon89]

Meal worms are ok but you dont wanna give them often as they are very fatty, and no one wants an obese dragon lol. Give them as treats. I have three dragons and they all get meal worms. Do not give superworms as those will actually bite the inside of the dragon and hurt or kill it.

 

[ShannyBeard]

The short and minor answer offered to the mealie question is no, don't feed them as you take the chance of possibly having an impaction due to the chitin but many people feed their beardies meal worms without ever having any impaction problems at all! However, the risk for impaction is there.

The more educated, nutritious and scientifically relevant answer is ShannyBeard's EXCELLENT post. That is the more important reason not to use them, the calcium to phosphorous ratio ....You are awesome and educational too, Shannon

:laughing6: :laughing6: We make a good team. There are the the OMG NO IMPACTION people and the OMG NO CALCIUM LEACHING people. :silent: :study:

 

[ShannyBeard]

Meal worms are ok but you dont wanna give them often as they are very fatty, and no one wants an obese dragon lol. Give them as treats. I have three dragons and they all get meal worms. Do not give superworms as those will actually bite the inside of the dragon and hurt or kill it.

Mealworms have twice as much fat as crickets, and four times as much fat as hornworms. Interestingly, they are just slightly less fattening than waxworms, which are considered a beardie 'candy bar.' :lol:

One consideration with mealworms is people say they feed them, but they don't always say in what form. I think this is also an important factor. There are live mealworms and there are dried mealworms. Removing the moisture from a feeder that is known to cause impaction is dangerous. You know that a dehydrated beardie has more trouble with elimination because the dry food inside of him is harder to pass. If you are adding more dried food to their diet, especially in an feeder that is difficult to digest, you are increasing the risk of impaction. :study:

 

[agordon89]

I give mine both and you don't have to worry about dehydration in a dragon that drinks plenty, and poos regularly, and takes regular baths, and yes they are fatty as I said they should only be givin as treats, kinda like a brownie, not a good staple food but once in a while its ok.

 

[ShannyBeard]

I give mine both and you don't have to worry about dehydration in a dragon that drinks plenty, and poos regularly, and takes regular baths, and yes they are fatty as I said they should only be givin as treats, kinda like a brownie, not a good staple food but once in a while its ok.

This is true, some dragons drink plenty, but some do not. Mine never actually drink water, even in their baths. :|

 

[agordon89]

So don't do the same things as I do if your dragons are different, only give them live ones and as I said twice now only as a treat, exactly like a candy bar. I was giving my experence that's all

 

[ShannyBeard]

So don't do the same things as I do if your dragons are different, only give them live ones and as I said twice now only as a treat, exactly like a candy bar. I was giving my experence that's all

Oh, of course! I would MUCH rather hear from people with experience with mealies than people who just keep repeating the same things that they heard. I feed mealies to my anoles, and they never get impacted, but then again their digestive/elimination systems may be very different from that of a bearded dragon. I have no clue about that. We just ordered superworms for the first time, and my dragons are just at the 16" mark, so this is new territory for me as well. The more I talk to people and hear their actual experiences, the more I learn about them. I am glad you can come on here with your own experiences, as that is the kind of posts that are the most valuable.

 

[TheVillan]

Can anybody tell me the calcium to phosphorous ratio for morio worms, please?

Thanks