Lump on back of beardies head (appeared all of a sudden)

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kingofnobbys

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:?:

Discovered a strange lump on our 3 yr old boy's head.

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Appeared all of a sudden (overnight) , discovered it at lizard feeding time on Friday evening (I feed my bluetongues , water skink and beardies each day about diner time).
I can't see to be any injury or lost scales, is not hard when pressed gently, and doesn't seem to be painful or bothering him in anyway, and he is acting completely normally and eating OK and pooing like clockwork (every day).
Spends most his day under his lamps basking and getting his UV , and holds his head up as normal when basking, and I've noticed no change in his behaviour, when having his turn on the floor (tail goes up in the air as usual and he roams about looking at stuff and tasting things and supports his weight OK).
His energy levels seem be normal for him (no sign of any being lethargic at all). He's basking heaps after feeds, and is just being a normal adult boy beardie as far as I can tell.


Yes I know reptiles are very good at hiding the fact they are sick unless they are extremely ill.

He does a lot of head banging when he sees our girl beardie when he's in his enclosure (jealousy ?) and when he's out for a roam on the floor , other than that he is very laid back and rarely runs about, just mossies about with his tail up in air tasting stuff and looking about or just likes to sit on the lounge next to me or my wife and admire his girlfriend from a distance.

He's not had a tumble (as far as I know) or a fall (we never let our lizard climb down from the lounge without assistance) and he's not been attacked by his girlfriend or one of the bluetongues (only one lizard is allowed out on the floor at any time).


Anyone encountered a similar problem with their beardies ? what was it ?

I'll be keeping a close eye on him and to see how the lump develops (hopefully it'll reduce in size or at least not get bigger over the next few days) and if he shows any signs of illness he'll be off the local reptile vet. I'm hoping the lump is something that is not an issue and will resolve itself and disappear over time.

Haematoma (resulting from a misadventure inside his enclosure) ?
Abscess (from being bitten back by a large cricket he was eating the night before (?) - he did rearup suddenly but was fine afterwards) .

Been watching him closely for any signs he may be ill, for changes in behaviour from him, or if the lump changes for the worse for nearly a week, and as far as I can tell, he's been completely oblivious to it, and it's not changed size or shape or "texture". He is having no bother eating his superworms and crickets (medium to large) and his leafy greens.

If he shows any signs of illness, or it grows, he'll be off to the local reptile vet for an assessment of the lump. I am really reluctant to submit him to an invasive/traumatic procedure if I can avoid it .

I've been very concerned about this lump but it doesn't seem to bother him at all and he seems very happy and healthy otherwise, seems
- if it's a haematoma the inflammation will eventually subside and the haematoma will be reabsorbed over time and it's not necessary to intervene.

- if it's a cyst or abscess (do they appear and develop so big overnight ?) it probably can do with being cleaned out and a dose of antibiotics , but again it may be completely harmless and will probably eventually shrink and disappear if left alone , of cause if he is showing any signs of being ill (ie develops a RI or SI) it becomes necessary to intervene and may require an invasive procedure.

- if it's an aneurysm under his scalp or in the back of his neck (can they develop and grow so quickly ?) , opening the lump to drain it may be very dangerous (life threatening and I really don't want to go there) , again researching these I've found out that sometimes aneurysms can be quite harmless if left alone and come and go and the lizard can lead a full and normal life expectancy (providing the aneurysm don't spontaneously rupture and cause internal bleeding).

I expect it could take a few weeks for the lump to recede and be reabsorbed.

Opinions sort , should I hold off and monitor closely for now (for a few more weeks) ?





I've never encountered a similar problem before.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there....I think that your line of reasoning is pretty logical, to give it a while to see if it subsides. Just one question....did you say that a large cricket DID actually bite him or was that one of the possible theories you were presenting ? If so there should be [ usually ] an insect type bite/wound I would think. At any rate, others will offer opinions....you covered pretty much all the possibilities so it's up to you to decide what action to take or not take. Hopefully he'll be O.K. !
 

kingofnobbys

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AHBD":d0rvwowy said:
Hi there....I think that your line of reasoning is pretty logical, to give it a while to see if it subsides. Just one question....did you say that a large cricket DID actually bite him or was that one of the possible theories you were presenting ? If so there should be [ usually ] an insect type bite/wound I would think. At any rate, others will offer opinions....you covered pretty much all the possibilities so it's up to you to decide what action to take or not take. Hopefully he'll be O.K. !

It's a strong suspicion - based on how Puff suddenly reacted while he was munching on a large cricket. I'd never seen him react like that and he's had no further similar "spasms".

(where He suddenly arched his back and went stiff just for a moment and stopped chewing and just as suddenly returned to his normal composure and resumed chewing - just like he might if the darned insect got it's revenge on him , but I don't know for sure if it actually bit him in back of the mouth or throat somewhere and he's shown no hesitation to since to eat his crickets, superworms and leafy greens, if there's an injury, it's where I can't see it without forcing him to open his mouth very wide to look inside , and may be inside his throat, he's swallowing food OK though.)

I hand feed all my lizards their insects and their leafy greens , I have adult bluetongue skinks, adult bearded dragons and an adult eastern water skink, been doing that since they were little, started handfeeding them as babies mostly to be sure they all got their fair share of insects (the BTs and beardies originally lived in shared digs (2 baby/juvie lizards per rearing mega tub , until dominance issue arose and I separated them into their own full sized enclosures to avoid the risk of them injuring each other). Is a great way of forming a strong bond with a lizard too.

Usually get 2/3 sized crickets in bulk and load them up with carrot, leafy greens and adult beardie pellets, they are getting pretty big and strong after a couple of weeks and I know they bite as I've been bit by some of the bigger crickets myself. I usually squash the crickets' heads after giving them a good dust but sometimes if I'm multitasking I'll forget to (squash the insect's head).

I think the lump appeared the next day or the day after. (But again it may be completely unrelated).
 

AHBD

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Oh, I thought you meant an external bite , on the actual neck base. I don't think a bite in the throat would cause that, it would cause the throat to swell and then you'd see difficulty breathing + swallowing, possibly some gagging. You can p.m. Drache613 [ Tracie ] she's a mod. here with a lot of experience and might throw some helpful thoughts out.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

I don't think an internal bite would cause an external swelling such as that.
A hematoma is a possibility. He has not fallen correct & this came on suddenly?
He isn't acting like he has a neurological issue as if he had a stroke or aneurism?
How is he doing today?
I would say if it does not go down within the next few days, that it would be a good idea to take him in just to check that out. Even if it isn't bothering him seemingly, there could be an underlying health issue looming.
He is a beautiful dragon, with great coloring too.
Is his beard black or normal colored right now?

Tracie
 

kingofnobbys

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Drache613":3qutjtn9 said:
Hello,

I don't think an internal bite would cause an external swelling such as that.
A hematoma is a possibility. He has not fallen correct & this came on suddenly?
He isn't acting like he has a neurological issue as if he had a stroke or aneurism?
How is he doing today?
I would say if it does not go down within the next few days, that it would be a good idea to take him in just to check that out. Even if it isn't bothering him seemingly, there could be an underlying health issue looming.
He is a beautiful dragon, with great coloring too.
Is his beard black or normal colored right now?

Tracie

He's been acting perfectly normally today and no his beard has been normal colored all day as it has been since I discovered the lump.

He hasn't gone blackbeard for ages. He's too laid back and happy and content most the time to go aggro.

He gets to spend a couple of hours out of his enclosure each afternoon and mozies over to our west facing ceiling to floor front window to look outside and then basks in the warm sunlight that streams in , I've noticed no impairment in his locomotion when crawling about (and of cause his tail goes up in the air as usual.

Enjoyed his crickets this evening too, no hassles chewing and swallowing them.

He's always been a real TV addict (will watch for hours from inside his enclosure, or on the lounge next to me, or will watch from his fav spot near our sunny window in the afternoon , and a night owl (often still awake even 3 or 4 hours after his lights timer switches off), i'll notice he's made himself comfy in his enclosure and is still awake and watching the TV.

As far as I can tell, there is no change in the lump or in how he is behaving (been over a week since I first noticed it).
 

kingofnobbys

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Just an update:

The lump is still there and doesn't seem to have changed in size or texture and still not bothering my big boy.

I've seen no change in his behaviour, how he moves, how he eats.

Think this is still a matter if wait and see for now.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
That's good to hear, that it's not causing any problem and has not gotten worse. It may be some type of benign fatty growth....hopefully it will not have any negative impact on his health, so far so good. :)
 

kingofnobbys

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Lump is still there . Some days looks like it's a little bit bigger , others it looks a bit smaller, still feels same (not a hard lump, it gives a bit when I press it, but I'm reluctant press too hard on it as I don't want to hurt him if it is at all tender , and I don't burst anything by pressing it).

Convinced myself that he's bumped the back of his head in a fall or something might have fallen on him in his enclosure and no longer believe it's the result of cricket biting him back , or one biting him while asleep (he's never fed crickets inside his enclosure so no crickets hiding there).

Done a little more googling and found a similar situation with another beardie from a few years ago here are the posts by it's owner at the time (I'm not a member of that forum BTW and don't plan on joining it as it seems just a venue to the owners to advertise their products and hatchies and the membership is very small):

http://www.australianbeardies.net/forum/showthread.php?621-Weird-swelling-to-back-of-head&p=5131&viewfull=1#post5131
by Cookiegirl 8apr11 :
Ok, it is a hematoma - she said it seems he has bumped his head (possible mating injury as suggested by the wise people here) and it has caused an internal bleed, and the swelling is actually a big pool of blood in his head. It should clot and eventually go away on its own.............so now we wait and see. She syringed the lump and it was just full of blood - my only worry was that it refilled whilst we were there which means the bleeding is still occuring, and it was four days since i first noticed it so i would expect it to have clotted before this, but i bow to the vet and her experience and knowledge. Will update when it has gone :)

and http://www.australianbeardies.net/forum/showthread.php?621-Weird-swelling-to-back-of-head&p=5357&viewfull=1#post5357
by Cookiegirl 19apr11 :
OK, new update.............took him back today as the swelling hadnt gone away and he now seems to have some swelling under his chin area as well. Vet does a few tests, looks at samples under microscope and then goes on to the internet. Result- he has a PSEUDOANEURYSM which basically means that it is an internal bleed from a blood vessel that is not treatable. It might cause him problems if it keeps growing and puts pressure on the brain/eyes whatever, or it might have no effect on him at all. The swelling under his chin is his lymph glands which are reacting to a gum infection that he has which is quite separate to the swelling at the back of his head - but which the vet says is quite common in the breed and often caused by diet - particularly dog and cat food - which we have not ever given our lizards but we have only had him for a year and he is over 5 so who knows.......... so he is on Baytril for infection and lots of hope for the swelling. Turns out the condition is very common in America. They have done some operations on it with mixed results, but this involves having a donor dragon for blood transfusions etc and no guarantees. The medical opinion is that they dont know what causes it - no-one knows.
Vet was 'excited' i guess in a good way as she had not ever heard about it before but now has quite a large folder on it as she downloaded all she could find and gave us a copy to read as well.
So we just treat him for the infection and keep a lop sided lizard and check he is ok. He is still eating well, chasing the girls if the mood takes him (should slow down real soon) so it looks like life as normal.

Still wait and see for now I think.
If it shows no sign of disappearing this seems be strong indication that it's a PSEUDOANEURYSM , but so long as he's continuing to behave normally, has no problems eating, he seems to be able to all his normal beardie things without showing any developing handicaps or impairments, and he is not showing any signs of suffering any discomfort or pain (a continuously black beard would indicate this ?? maybe ??) then apart from a vet maybe syringing it and giving a dose of antibiotics (just in case) if it doesn't go away over time of it's own accord.

Really reluctant to subject our beloved boy beardie to any intrusive surgical procedures if he's not suffering or being physically effected by his mysterious lump. Especially if these procedures involve some real risk to him.

I'd rather keep him as a lopsided beardie than loose him prematurely as a result of a vetinarian's surgical intervention.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I know it must be difficult just playing the waiting game but I once again agree with your line of reasoning. And yes, a constant black beard, if not brought on by his breeding instinct could definitely be a sign of pain, but usually would be accompanied by lethargy in that case. Hopefully he'll continue to stay pain free and normal as possible.
 

kingofnobbys

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AHBD":3uc28ra5 said:
I know it must be difficult just playing the waiting game but I once again agree with your line of reasoning. And yes, a constant black beard, if not brought on by his breeding instinct could definitely be a sign of pain, but usually would be accompanied by lethargy in that case. Hopefully he'll continue to stay pain free and normal as possible.

Yep .... hate the wait and see situation and I am very worried about him , and I watch him like a hawk when he's climbing about in his tank and when he's on the floor for his afternoon and sometimes evening (after dinner) walk about.

In 2 or 3 months I expect he'll start getting really horny (like he did last spring). He was very frustrated as we didn't let him mate with his sister and had a torrid time (he was very obsessed and really wanted to get to her) , had lots of head banging from him and arm waving from her , along with his "other" antics.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

Well, if he was that active with his breeding antics, then it is possible that he did suffer a slight injury of some type which caused the weakening of a blood vessel. Poor guy!
I am glad it hasn't gotten any worse though & it doesn't seem to be bothering him at all either.
He is eating well too?
Keep us posted on him.

Tracie
 

kingofnobbys

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Drache613":apqk459k said:
Hello,

Well, if he was that active with his breeding antics, then it is possible that he did suffer a slight injury of some type which caused the weakening of a blood vessel. Poor guy!
I am glad it hasn't gotten any worse though & it doesn't seem to be bothering him at all either.
He is eating well too?
Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

Yep , that's a possibility (one I hadn't thought off - he seriously looked like he was going nod his head off back in spring) , he also near wore a hole in metal trip at edge of the carpet from rubbing himself there - - was comical to see , and a bit embarising if we had visitors.

He's pretty good on the crickets and greens, not so keen on the new superworms (unlike his sister who seems to really like them) I guess he doesn't like their taste , where he loved his silkworms , all I'd have to do is put on my chest where he could see it and look away for a second and it would be gone and he'd looking up at my eyes as if saying "yum ! more please".

He's also pooing regular as clockwork (as usual) every day and rarely more than 2 days between poos unlike his sister who will regularly save her's up for 3 - 5 days and then go every day for week or so.
 

Drache613

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Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Geez, they can sure pull some fancy shenanigans & worry us to death for sure. I bet he was noisy trying to get out all of the time, rubbing on the tank.
That is ok, at least he will eat silkworms, crickets & greens. That is good enough. Some love superworms & others don't. They tend to have dififerent tastes many times.
It sounds like he is doing very well & eating a lot too.
Let us know how he is coming along. Hopefully, the bump will not change at all.

Tracie
 

kingofnobbys

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Picture taken yesterday afternoon after they had dinner (some Ca dusted crickets, mealworm pupae, some leafy greens (puk choy) and a superworm each) , both sharing dad (very rare for the two beardies to be out together - both were on their best behaviour : ) .... ).

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My boy (Puff) is behind my girl (Rex).

Lump is easier to see in this photo , esp if there is another beardie to compare with.
 
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