Looking to the future, enclosure advice please

[lizardmom25]

Hi, my new baby beardie is currently in a 40 gal breeder tank, but I would eventually like to upgrade to and enclosed Viv. I am currently looking at highscale reptiles. They offer a 48x18x18 all wood enclosure. It comes with vents and light fixtures already installed. He is saying that a 24" T8 should be sufficient for UVB as the actual interior of the viv is 16.5 inches or so in height and t5 mounted inside is too strong in these conditions if you are looking to give your beardie any vertical space.

What do you guys think? Is 48x18x18 going to be enough space for a fully grown adult? Will the T8 light be ok for UVB or should I have him install a T5?

 

[VenusAndSaturn]

Depends on the bulb and uvb percentage, if its a 10.0 or a 12% its completely fine as a t5 bulb to be put in there. If its a t5 14% then its best to have more height, however I've noticed my female beardie likes basking at about 5 inches away from her one week old arcadia T5 HO 14% uvb bulb thats mounted outside on her screen.
Its good to give them a variety of options, high, average, low and barely any uvb levels. So if they want to bask at a higher uvb index they can, and if they want to go to a lower spot they should be able to.

Basically the t5 will be fine and honestly better overall for the health of your animal if you only go with a 24" bulb. Make sure to get a 10.0 or a 12% bulb.
Personally I prefer either a 36" or a 46" bulb for 48" long enclosures however thats just me and I provide areas where my beardies can get out of the uvb if needed.

 

[lizardmom25]

So if I went with a 36" fixture still got T5 or do the T8?

 

[VenusAndSaturn]

I'd still get the T5, they last about a year rather than 6 months if you get a good brand like reptisun or arcadia.
And with it only covering half the enclosure your beardie would have areas to get out of the uvb if needed so no need to worry about too much uvb.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Depends on the bulb and uvb percentage, if its a 10.0 or a 12% its completely fine as a t5 bulb to be put in there. If its a t5 14% then its best to have more height, however I've noticed my female beardie likes basking at about 5 inches away from her one week old arcadia T5 HO 14% uvb bulb thats mounted outside on her screen.
Its good to give them a variety of options, high, average, low and barely any uvb levels. So if they want to bask at a higher uvb index they can, and if they want to go to a lower spot they should be able to. < <<< not surprising , if the mesh lid is fine mesh , the mesh is cutting the UVA and UVB flux by 40% (maybe even 45%) and cancelling out the benefit of a parabolic (focusing) reflector hood. So the dragon doesn't sense 14%UVB , it senses more like 6% or 7% UVB and similar with UVA.
UVB flux in summer is over 300 microW UVB / sq.cm for most the day in the natural range of bearded dragons too, and it's very common to dragons backing on termite mound, a tree stump, farm fence post in full sunlight.

from http://www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm
Note the UVB flux for Alice Springs which is considered prime central bearded dragon native habitat.

Data for Alice Springs
Location 23°42′0″S 133°52′12″E.



Basically the t5 will be fine and honestly better overall for the health of your animal if you only go with a 24" bulb. Make sure to get a 10.0 or a 12% bulb.

if you opt for a 14%UVB tube , increase the UVB flux in the curves for the 12%UVB tube below by 14/12 = 117%

Naked globe or tube

with reflector (hoods/domes) to focus UV :

or shift the basking distance to achieve 180-200 microW UVB/ sq.cm for the 12%UVB tube closer by 12/14 = so 30cm become 30 14/12 = 35cm (14 inches) is now the required distance to the basking spot.


Personally I prefer either a 36" or a 46" bulb for 48" long enclosures however thats just me and I provide areas where my beardies can get out of the uvb if needed.

 

[VenusAndSaturn]

Its not fine mesh, its hard to explain exactly but its definitely not fine mesh like you'd see on an exo terra opening door tank for the screen top of sorts.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Its not fine mesh, its hard to explain exactly but its definitely not fine mesh like you'd see on an exo terra opening door tank for the screen top of sorts.

It's likely the 5mm gap mesh , this blocks the UV also by a significant amount see viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235210&p=1809330#p1809330
the amount of UV blocked is just under 30% for 5mm wire mesh commonly used in those vivs.

 

[VenusAndSaturn]

Ah okay well thats good to know, sort of worries me on how much UVB Saturn has now. Since his tank has a fine mesh screen on it with only a 10.0 bulb mounted on top and theres no way I can mount it inside, its physically impossible to as its a 46" bulb laying across two 50 gallons, his and then a leopard geckos.

 

[lizardmom25]

Depends on the bulb and uvb percentage, if its a 10.0 or a 12% its completely fine as a t5 bulb to be put in there. If its a t5 14% then its best to have more height, however I've noticed my female beardie likes basking at about 5 inches away from her one week old arcadia T5 HO 14% uvb bulb thats mounted outside on her screen.
Its good to give them a variety of options, high, average, low and barely any uvb levels. So if they want to bask at a higher uvb index they can, and if they want to go to a lower spot they should be able to. < <<< not surprising , if the mesh lid is fine mesh , the mesh is cutting the UVA and UVB flux by 40% (maybe even 45%) and cancelling out the benefit of a parabolic (focusing) reflector hood. So the dragon doesn't sense 14%UVB , it senses more like 6% or 7% UVB and similar with UVA.
UVB flux in summer is over 300 microW UVB / sq.cm for most the day in the natural range of bearded dragons too, and it's very common to dragons backing on termite mound, a tree stump, farm fence post in full sunlight.

from http://www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm
Note the UVB flux for Alice Springs which is considered prime central bearded dragon native habitat.

Data for Alice Springs
Location 23°42′0″S 133°52′12″E.



Basically the t5 will be fine and honestly better overall for the health of your animal if you only go with a 24" bulb. Make sure to get a 10.0 or a 12% bulb.

if you opt for a 14%UVB tube , increase the UVB flux in the curves for the 12%UVB tube below by 14/12 = 117%

Naked globe or tube

with reflector (hoods/domes) to focus UV :

or shift the basking distance to achieve 180-200 microW UVB/ sq.cm for the 12%UVB tube closer by 12/14 = so 30cm become 30 14/12 = 35cm (14 inches) is now the required distance to the basking spot.


Personally I prefer either a 36" or a 46" bulb for 48" long enclosures however thats just me and I provide areas where my beardies can get out of the uvb if needed.

Thanks for such detailed info, but I am in the US and looking at a 10% reptisun bulb. If I went with a T8 36" fixture with a reptisun 10.0 bulb, how close would basking spots need to be, and how would that change with a T5 bulb? I think we now have access to the arcadia 12% bulbs in the US as well, so I assume the 12% info would be accurate for that?

 

[kingofnobbys]

Depends on the bulb and uvb percentage, if its a 10.0 or a 12% its completely fine as a t5 bulb to be put in there. If its a t5 14% then its best to have more height, however I've noticed my female beardie likes basking at about 5 inches away from her one week old arcadia T5 HO 14% uvb bulb thats mounted outside on her screen.
Its good to give them a variety of options, high, average, low and barely any uvb levels. So if they want to bask at a higher uvb index they can, and if they want to go to a lower spot they should be able to. < <<< not surprising , if the mesh lid is fine mesh , the mesh is cutting the UVA and UVB flux by 40% (maybe even 45%) and cancelling out the benefit of a parabolic (focusing) reflector hood. So the dragon doesn't sense 14%UVB , it senses more like 6% or 7% UVB and similar with UVA.
UVB flux in summer is over 300 microW UVB / sq.cm for most the day in the natural range of bearded dragons too, and it's very common to dragons backing on termite mound, a tree stump, farm fence post in full sunlight.

from http://www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm
Note the UVB flux for Alice Springs which is considered prime central bearded dragon native habitat.

Data for Alice Springs
Location 23°42′0″S 133°52′12″E.



Basically the t5 will be fine and honestly better overall for the health of your animal if you only go with a 24" bulb. Make sure to get a 10.0 or a 12% bulb.

if you opt for a 14%UVB tube , increase the UVB flux in the curves for the 12%UVB tube below by 14/12 = 117%

Naked globe or tube

with reflector (hoods/domes) to focus UV :

or shift the basking distance to achieve 180-200 microW UVB/ sq.cm for the 12%UVB tube closer by 12/14 = so 30cm become 30 14/12 = 35cm (14 inches) is now the required distance to the basking spot.


Personally I prefer either a 36" or a 46" bulb for 48" long enclosures however thats just me and I provide areas where my beardies can get out of the uvb if needed.

Thanks for such detailed info, but I am in the US and looking at a 10% reptisun bulb. If I went with a T8 36" fixture with a reptisun 10.0 bulb, how close would basking spots need to be, and how would that change with a T5 bulb? I think we now have access to the arcadia 12% bulbs in the US as well, so I assume the 12% info would be accurate for that?

'

The tube needs to be NO MORE THAN 3/4 the length of the viv, this allows the dragon to get away from the UV when it's absorbed enough.

A t8 10%UVB needs to be NO MORE THAN 5-6 inches from a basking spot (if it's mounted UNDER the mesh lid and in a reflector hood).

T8 tubes are quite weak.

You are better off with T5HO tube rated at LEAST 10% mounted in a reflector hood and I recommend mounting UNDER the mesh lid and about 12 inches from the basking spot.

 

[lizardmom25]

Depends on the bulb and uvb percentage, if its a 10.0 or a 12% its completely fine as a t5 bulb to be put in there. If its a t5 14% then its best to have more height, however I've noticed my female beardie likes basking at about 5 inches away from her one week old arcadia T5 HO 14% uvb bulb thats mounted outside on her screen.
Its good to give them a variety of options, high, average, low and barely any uvb levels. So if they want to bask at a higher uvb index they can, and if they want to go to a lower spot they should be able to. < <<< not surprising , if the mesh lid is fine mesh , the mesh is cutting the UVA and UVB flux by 40% (maybe even 45%) and cancelling out the benefit of a parabolic (focusing) reflector hood. So the dragon doesn't sense 14%UVB , it senses more like 6% or 7% UVB and similar with UVA.
UVB flux in summer is over 300 microW UVB / sq.cm for most the day in the natural range of bearded dragons too, and it's very common to dragons backing on termite mound, a tree stump, farm fence post in full sunlight.

from http://www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm
Note the UVB flux for Alice Springs which is considered prime central bearded dragon native habitat.

Data for Alice Springs
Location 23°42′0″S 133°52′12″E.



Basically the t5 will be fine and honestly better overall for the health of your animal if you only go with a 24" bulb. Make sure to get a 10.0 or a 12% bulb.

if you opt for a 14%UVB tube , increase the UVB flux in the curves for the 12%UVB tube below by 14/12 = 117%

Naked globe or tube

with reflector (hoods/domes) to focus UV :

or shift the basking distance to achieve 180-200 microW UVB/ sq.cm for the 12%UVB tube closer by 12/14 = so 30cm become 30 14/12 = 35cm (14 inches) is now the required distance to the basking spot.


Personally I prefer either a 36" or a 46" bulb for 48" long enclosures however thats just me and I provide areas where my beardies can get out of the uvb if needed.

Thanks for such detailed info, but I am in the US and looking at a 10% reptisun bulb. If I went with a T8 36" fixture with a reptisun 10.0 bulb, how close would basking spots need to be, and how would that change with a T5 bulb? I think we now have access to the arcadia 12% bulbs in the US as well, so I assume the 12% info would be accurate for that?

'

The tube needs to be NO MORE THAN 3/4 the length of the viv, this allows the dragon to get away from the UV when it's absorbed enough.

A t8 10%UVB needs to be NO MORE THAN 5-6 inches from a basking spot (if it's mounted UNDER the mesh lid and in a reflector hood).

T8 tubes are quite weak.

You are better off with T5HO tube rated at LEAST 10% mounted in a reflector hood and I recommend mounting UNDER the mesh lid and about 12 inches from the basking spot.

That's the thing, this won't be a mesh lid, but a fully enclosed viv. 48x18x18 The builder is advising T8 because the enclosure is only 16.5 inches high on the inside. He says in that kind of space t5 will be too much UV and harmful to the animal, that I should go with t8 and put a basking perch within 6-8 inches of the light, that by the time a t5 fixture is mounted inside the 16.5 inch tall viv, there won't much room to allow my beardie vertical space and still stay 12 inches from the light. I am considering asking if he can do a 24" tall version, but if not how practical will having a t5 be?

 

[CooperDragon]

http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/22-t-5-ho-fixture-high-output-with-arcadia-d3-12-ho-bulb/ This about 10-12'' above the basking area will be an excellent UVB source. As long as there are options available for lower UVB (and lower heat) that are easy to access in the tank it shouldn't pose a problem. If you go with the T8 and a reflective fixture, it should sit 6-8'', no closer than about 6'' due to visual intensity, but you won't get sunlight levels of UVB over the basking area. As mentioned, higher levels aren't harmful as long as they can easily move about and self regulate.

 

[lizardmom25]

Is that fixture easy to mount to the inside of a wood enclosure, or is the hood style?

 

[AHBD]

Venus, is your mesh like this ?
https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/30004/full
If so, it blocks very little uvb and is perfectly fine to set your light on, esp. a t5.

Just as a comparison, chameleon breeders + keepers use a t8 Reptisun 5.0 [ very weak in comparison ] and they keep it on top of the incredibly small mesh flyscreen. Their chams. STILL get the proper amount of uvb, and anything stronger is discouraged.

O.P, sorry if I got off track, just want to be sure that anyone using the screen with the larger holes can be confident that it's perfectly fine.

And Lizardmom, your tank would be 100% fine with a t8 if that's what you decided to go with at any point. The t5 will be a bit strong at close distances.

 

[lizardmom25]

In light of this discussion we have changed tracks. We are going to build our own 4x2x2. I really want to use the t5 light and don't want to deal with the height restrictions of a lower tank I have ordered a 34" t5 fixture from amazon. It should be good for a 48" enclosure that is 24" high. I will be doing a custom rock wall/ basking platform so I can build in some shade and various basking levels.

The fixture doesn't have a reflector. Could i get away with not adding one if I go with a 12% or 14% arcadia bulb?