Little beardie dire health concern

[Ercfrnss]

Hello,

I am new to the forum. My name is Eric. I am a 20 year old college student and I have been keeping reptiles for about six months now. I have two bearded dragons. Lazarus, who is six months old and ten inches long is a male. Zaccheaus is three months old, four inches long, and based on her behavior probably female. Both of my bearded dragons have been happy and healthy since i bought them, with neve a health concern. They are both in homemade terrariums with tile instead of substrate, as well as plenty of rocks and fake branches for exercise. They both have a 110 degree Fahrenheit basking spot, as well as a cool end of the tank with the ambient temperature being around 80 degrees Fahrenheit. They both get 12 hours of 10.0 UVB daily. They live on a diet of live crickets (dusted with calcium), mealworms, freeze dried dragon pellets, and commercial dragon bites, with Lazarus getting superworms and the occasional calcium dusted Pinkie mouse for a treat. They both get Kale and mustard greens every other day Lazarus' tank is about two feet deep by 3.5 feet long, with three twelve inch high levels for him to climb to with ramps. Zaccheaus' tank is about two feet long by 1.5 feet deep, and two one foot tall levels to climb up or down.

Until today, Neither had ever had any health problems. When I put Zaccheaus' food in for her today (Mustard greens with mealworms and calcium) She did not seem enthusiastic about it. I hand fed her a couple of mealworms, and she seemed to be shaky and have poor depth perception. Three hours later I came back and she had not moved from her perch on a branch. I gently coaxed her onto my hand and set her by her food dish, when suddenly she violently seized up. Her whole body went rigid, with a gaping mouth and no breath. I thought for sure she had suffered some kind of massive heart attack and died, and that she was having nerve spasm. Suddenly she gasped and started breathing very heavily, still frozen in a rigid plank. I immediately feared impaction and prepared a warm soak for her. I set her in the bath and she seemed totally normal. I looked away for a moment and when i looked back she was seizing again, this time underwater. I quickly pulled her out and set her on a towel. She regained control again and I immediately rushed her to the animal hospital. The vet felt around for impaction, and couldn't find any, all the while poor little zaccheaus was slipping in and out of these violent fits. She told me the only reasonable possibility was calcium deficiency, despite zaccheaus' supplementation. She also gave me a little bottle of liquid calcium, which i am to force feed Zaccheaus for the next three weeks. After getting her home, Zaccheaus has one final seizure and has now calmed down. I fear that the seizures may have caused some kind of brain damage though. She just lays stationary on her branch, breathing slowly. She's got the thousand yard stare, and will not respond to food being handed to her. Can anyone out there give me any kind of direction or answers about what may have caused this and what can be done about it?

Thank you so much,
Eric

 

[Ercfrnss]

Please help someone, I'm very concerned for her. She snapped out of her trance long enough to eat about five mealworms, then spaced out again. Has anyone ever had an experience like this? Or heard of something like this happening?

 

[Bwalter]

hoping someone can help you, Sorry I can't, haven't had to deal with anything like this before,

 

[pogvitt]

Hmm just a thought, but I've heard some pesticides can produce violent seizing if consumed in high enough doses - seems unlikely, but maybe you could try buying organic? Also, is it possible that your sick beardie could have been exposed to something your healthy beardie wasn't?

 

[dragonlover3]

What kind of UVB bulb are you using?....If your dragons are not getting the proper wavelength of UVB, they can not synthesize their own natural vitamin D3 needed for calcium absorption. This forum recommends only 2 bulbs known to provide the right UVB for bearded dragons. ReptiSun 10.0 tube, not coil. { not ReptiGlo, they are not good} or the Ardacia D3 12%. Other UVB bulbs out there that may be fine for other reptiles but are known to cause eye and health issues in bearded dragons.
Your basking temps sound good for little dragons, they need appropriate basking temps to digest their food to get the nutrition from it.
Stop giving them Kale on a regular basis! Kale has oxalates which bind with calcium preventing it from being absorbed and utilized by your beardies. They are becoming calcium deficient by eating it regardless of your calcium supplements. Kale is one of the greens that should be given only occasionally. Their are other veggies high in oxalates also that should only be fed occasionally, spinach and swiss chard are a couple. Educate your self on Vitamin A toxicity in your dragons. There are also foods to limit that are high in Vitamin A, carrots are one. The following link will tell you the good veggies and the ones to give in limited amounts and the ones to avoid altogether. It is color coded, easy to follow nutritional list of vegetation for your dragon. Most here recommend and follow it. I do. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html
Meal worms aren't that nutritious and they have a very hard exoskeleton called chitin which is not digestable and can lead to an impaction or perforation in the intestines leading to death. Better choices are butter worms, silk worms, horn worms, reptiworms, which are also called phoenix worms and dubia roach nymphs to name a few. Repti worms are naturally high in calcium and don't even need to be dusted. I have 4 dragons and have my own roach colony as roaches are also good nutrition.
Although some do feed their dragons pinkies, it is not recommended since dragons can not digest or in any way process the bone and cartilage which then can cause an impaction or perforation in the intestines. Many make the argument that in the wild they eat small rodents etc. Well that is true, in the wild they do, however keep in mind that in the wild dragons only live 3 to 5 years for a variety of reasons, impactions and intestinal perforations are some of those reasons.
It would be of benefit to set up a schedule for calcium supplementation, you need the right amount but to much will cause constipation in your dragon.
Many follow a 5:2 plan. It's easy to remember. 5 days a week Monday thru Friday dust 1 of the live feeder meals per day with calcium. 2 days a week on Saturday and Sunday dust 1 of the live feeder meals per day with vitamins. Bearded dragons don't absorb many vitamins well so they only need to be given vitamins once or twice a week. Everyone may do it a bit differently but all agree the supplements are needed. I dust with calcium 5 days a week M-F, On Saturday I dust with calcium with D3, and Sunday I dust with vitamins. I follow the nutritional list above so my dragons have an excellent diet and I am confident in giving them vits only once a week.
The whole point of proper UVB is the D3 synthesis of your dragon's natural D3 he needs to absorb and utilize calcium. Some use calcium with D3 rather than plain calcium. Some feel if you have proper UVB to help you dragon synthesize his own natural D3 you only need plain calcium. Some say why take a chance your UBV may not be adequate and they use the calcium with D3. I've read articles that say it is "unclear and inconclusive" if bearded dragons can even absorb supplemental D3. I have proper UBV, Reptisun 10.0 so use plain calcium except 1 day a week I use the calcium with D3 in case it is of some benefit. This is only how I do it. You should educate yourself and make your own decision regarding D3 supplement.
You are thinking if this is true then why is only one of my dragons showing symptoms? Not all dragons are affected in the same way and your other "healthy" dragon just may not be showing symptoms of the calcium deficiency yet.
With some adjustments and tweaking a few things, it should help.
All Good Wishes to You and your Little Dragons!
Amanda

 

[dragonlover3]

Oh, just want to mention, while your little one is on the liquid calcium you shouldn't need to dust with calcium. The liquid should be enough.
Amanda