learning to do own fecals -- (new scope pics!)

[blondie098]

(new scope pics added 12-13 & 12-14!)
If anyone else has learned to do their own fecals to help save money inbetween vet visits, I have some questions... We have ordered the Amscope 40x - 800x scope with USB camera, I know its more than we need, but the kids can use it for other stuff, too because they attend a special Science / Technology school. We will be keeping a photo library of the reads, dated per dragon. Will gladly share our pics for everyone to learn a little more...

Question #1:
Is it easier to stain the direct smears and read immediately? Or is it easier to learn how to read unstained?

Question #2:
Hubby is severely color-blind. Is there a stain color that would make it easier for him?

Question #3:
How fast do I need to make the readings? (I will be reading quickly after smearing & prep, just wanted to make sure I had 5 minutes or so to do the read?)

Question #4:
What is more accurate for coccidia counts, the float test (Fecasol) or the direct smear? We don't have a centrifuge, so we can't do the other methods of float.

Question: #5:
Is there a chart in existence anywhere that I can get of what counts are good/bad of the common parasites / protozoa?

It's an interesting new adventure -- boy, the things we do for those we love! :shock:

 

[spyder79]

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Understanding-Reptile-Parasites/Roger-J-Klingenberg/e/9781882770908

http://animal-world.com/AmazonPHP/amazoop/AmaProd/BookDetail.php?ISBN=1882770218&ret_address=/AmazonPHP/amazoop/AmaProd/RcmdReptileBook.php

these two links have books either of which will be helpful in your search. I too am learning to do my own fecals and these were the texts suggested to me by a Zoologist friend of mine.

 

[blondie098]

I have those 2 + a 3rd book on the way ... got the first one today, and already started reading up on the protozoans. (I'm reading the Klingenberg book)

Does anyone have a list of all the different types of parasites that vets check dragons for (so I can learn all those first)? Wasn't sure if a list like that exists? Am already planning on learning all about hookworm, pinworms, coccidia, flagellates, roundworm, tapeworm, etc.

 

[blondie098]

Scope / Camera has arrived! :mrgreen: and 3 of the 4 dragons have been more than cooperative in giving us "stuff" to look at (haa haa)... we hope to have sample pics soon

We also have a bunch of other "stuff" we've been rounding up just because we're like little kid with a new toy... so we've got dragon shed, and a single sidespike shed, and worm shed, dubia shed, moth pieces, haa haa can you tell we're excited?!?

 

[GoFast]

also check out beautifuldragons.com They have a good little how-to on there I think

 

[zebraflavencs]

try This:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp
Quite helpful.. I have it bookmarked for my own use... Thanks Daddy !
Janie

 

[blondie098]

ok, so bear with me as I learn how to NOT get air bubble trapped! (I'm working on it, have to refine my technique)... so here are some of our first slides...
Crash's poo -- those are not eggs, they are air bubbles taken at 100x mag:

Same slide, different spot (100x mag):

And this is dragon shed from Crash (100x mag) -- it's not trapped inbetween glass, it's just a 3-d type image on the scope stage:

Got more coming... hubby's capturing fresh slides as I post this.

 

[blondie098]

This one is Quasi's:

 

[blondie098]

Ok, so now I am TOTALLY freaked out -- please tell me my eyes are playing tricks on me?!? We just got these photographed... now, the large two chunks of "wormlike material" that are kinda overlapping -- I have not yet found anything like this in my books ...

But the other, skinny lines are what have me freaked out... according to my books, those maybe look like ciliates? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Any moderator input -- Traci or Vicki or Diane? (PM me if you want a high-rez of any of these shots, the master photos are 1280x1024) These slides were taken at 100x mag to blow up what we saw as questionable on 40x.

This is the right side of the picture:

And this is the left side:

And this is the same spot on the slide in progression shots of magnification (40x, 100x, 400x):

 

[blondie098]

We went a step further and checked every millemeter of the slide again, plus ran another test this a.m. of a fresh sample with a different mounting fluid -- same type of bug is present, so we've ruled out old/contaminated/bad mounting fluid ..

This one is really freaky looking:

Of the new sample we looked at this morning, we shot another 30 or so slides, will get them converted and upload some neat pics later...

 

[pscaulkins]

Are you doing floats or smears? BTW, I also have a vet's microscope and do my own fecals only I don't stain. I just do floats and smears. Floats give a clean view with any parasites and smears shows plant matter and everything. My vet does smears to make sure the fecal matter is digested, and floats for parasites. My vet has even given me coverslips when mine was defective because I can't get them locally.

The floats are more accurate for counts. I prepare my floats in the containers beautiful dragons sells and after 5 minutes I look at it. I think you have a 5-8 minute time line for accuracy.

I started with a inexpensive toy microscope, to one that beautiful dragons sells (couldn't see very well so gave it to my grandkids) to the vet microscope that is so awesome. I can tell you that I have saved at least twice what my husband paid for it in fecals in the last 3 years.

 

[Delshara]

I have a biology degree and those pictures sure do take me back to those good ol' days in lab. Those microorganisms do look like protists of some kind, but I'd think you could see the cilia more clearly at that magnification (it's been a while, forgive any errors I'm making). I definitely don't know what their presence means.

I actually have access to microscopes at work, but I'm not sure if they will approve the specific use that I want to put them to.

 

[blondie098]

Those slides pictured are direct smears -- I haven't gotten to the floats yet, I am working on refining one technique at a time ... The ones already pictured used mounting fluid with a slight amber tint -- the new ones I'll be uploading tomorrow are mounted with a drop of purified water, so no tint.

The new ones I just ran earlier today had those same freaky critters.

Gotta finish the concert outfit right now, so I should be able to get pics posted tomorrow between visiting new grandbaby & work :mrgreen:

 

[pscaulkins]

Those so called critters on the pictures look somewhat like plant matter. Pinworms has a dot in them. I also see a ton of air bubbles. Try tapping the coverslip with your fingernail. That helps to get air bubbles out. I have never used stain, just pure saline for smears.

The only two parasites I can say I can identify with no issues is pinworms and coccidia. But I purchased Beautiful dragons parasite chart that is laminated and is very good. I also have a parasite book but haven't looked at it in a long, long while.

 

[dilly1]

Plant matter...the only other parasite that it looks like is a cestode...but I doubt it.