In Desperate Need of Help...

[mysterysock]

Hey guys,

I have been on here a while back regarding the health of my beardie concerning his tail necrosis and his seizures, which began late December. The contents of this discussion can be found here http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=95814&hilit= to make this a little more concise. In conclusion to the aforementioned issues, the seizures have gone away , and the necrosis of his tail finally diminished so I'm assuming the medication was a success.

After researching (and researching and researching) and speaking with several veterinarians, it is still unclear the exact cause of his seizures. The most information I have gathered, which is rather vague, is that it is caused by a hereditary neurological disorder. PLEASE keep in mind, I purchased my bearded dragon from a local PetCo (I know, I didn't do my research before properly choosing one), and I have personally seen the conditions they keep their reptiles in. Unacceptable is an understatement. It is the current effects of this unfortunate neurological disease bestowed upon my pet that are seriously starting to concern me.

It has been nearly 3 months since the symptoms and diagnosis, and until recently, he has seemed much more active and happy so we assumed everything had run its course and the little guy could resume a normal life. However,over the past few days, his actions have become minimal to say the least. He stays in one spot most of the day, not wanting to move at all. When I feed him, he merely sits and wait for the prey to come to him and sticks his tongue while moving his head side to side. This does not seem normal at all. His physical well-being is deteriorating rapidly, and I'm beginning to get worried. Also discussed in some of my forum topics is the crook in his tail. This has only gotten worse, and now he displays a curvature in his lower spine so his body is constantly in a S-like form. This significantly hinders his ability to move. His coordination is very poor. When he walks, his body contorts and twists, and he hardly uses his hind legs due to this horrible deformity in his spine. Consequently, several times through the day his flips over and gets stuck on his back and is unable to flip back over on his own so I must go to the cage and give him some assistance. This is so sad and almost sickening to watch him act in this way. Also, he has developed some sores above his eyes which appeared just 2 days ago and are getting worse by the day. The only cause I can fathom is from his being turned upside down for too long (like when I can't be home) and tossing and turning trying to roll back over, rubbing his head on the ground. I have been putting neosporin on the wounds but am seeing no sign of healing.

Izaac is my first bearded dragon. Me, my girlfriend, and my roommates have grown very very fond to the little guy. He has the sweetest personality. He has never even tried to bite any one and is more than happy to sit in your lap while you play video games for hours. He eats out of my hands and even from my fingers very gently. Izaac is completely passive and has never shown any signs of anger or hostility - even towards my mini-schnauzer! He actually seems to like him lol. He has doubled in length since I've had mine, now at 10" and eats crickets, worms, roaches, and even veggies with no problem. His appetite has dwindled slightly recently, due to the lack of his mobility I'm assuming. I have taken the best of care of him to my ability, suiting all of his husbandry and environmental needs to the T as I am a bit of a perfectionist by nature so I know for a fact that he has been properly taken care of and not neglected or abused in anyway in the time I've had him. He has had all of his vitamins and minerals, efficient Calcium intake, proper temperatures, and regular maintenance attended to his cage needs.

So here is my dilemma. As much as I would love to keep the guy and just hope for the best, I don't think I can. Like I said, he is only my first bearded dragon, and I'm not sure I have the experience to properly meet all of his needs. Also, I go to school full-time and my girlfriend has a full-time job so it is impossible for me to always be able to watch him. I am desperately seeking assistance here. I don't want to feel like I'm pawning my pet off to somebody because I don't want him anymore because that isn't the case, at all - I simply want him to be in the best hands for his sake. Someone more qualified than me to look after him. So I was wondering, would anyone know of any local reptile rescue foundations in or anywhere near the Memphis area? Even if not, I do not care to drive long distances because I had rather not ship him in his condition.

Any assistance or advice would be very very much appreciated because I feel like I am at a loss. I have done literally everything in my power for him thus far.

Thanks again guys,
Blake

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Glad to hear that his tail issues have gotten all cleared up.
In your other thread, we were discussing your UVB exposure for him. Did you get that all fixed up for him, by moving it closer to him? If not, that is going to be the cause of this deformity in him. He has not been absorbing his calcium properly so his bones have grown incorrectly.
Just by your description, it sounds like he has metabolic bone disease. How close is his UVB light to him currently? How old is it now?
How often are you giving calcium supplementation?
Of course this is up to you. If you feel you do not have the time for him, then by all means try to find a good home for him. However, this issue is easily corrected by getting a UVB light & getting it within the proper distances for him. At this point since you have a 4x2x2 you can use a mercury vapor bulb such as the Megaray which would really help zap his calcium stores back into check. If you decide to do that, I highly recommend getting some liquid calcium as well to use for at least 1 month to get his blood calcium levels back up. His bones have been greatly leached of calcium, causing them to become deformed.
What type of vitamins does he get?
Can you post a picture of the sores above his eyes? That sounds like a vitamin deficiency.

Tracie

 

[mysterysock]

I use RepCal Calcium and Herptivite supplements. Calcium 6x a week, multivitamins 1x a week. I did lower his UV and remove the screen, but it is as low as the cage will allow. I installed a hammock (which he loves) for him to easily crawl up to to get within 6-8" of the UV; however, since his recent condition it is very difficult for him to get up in his hammock without my assistance. Even with me upping his calcium intake and increasing his UVB exposure, it still only seems his condition is worsening. Like I said, this is my first bearded dragon so I don't have all the experience under my belt. But believe me, I have spent maaaaany hours researching and feel like I have a very detailed understanding of their needs. From what I can tell, it is a direct correlation with his neurological disorder. And none of the vets around here are willing to do blood tests to accurately see his calcium levels. At this point, I would feel much much more comfortable if he was in the hands of a reptile rescue and with someone who could monitor him closer than I am able to. I simply want what is best for the lizard.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Did they ever determine what could have been the cause of the neurological problem? Metabolic bone disease is a severe disease & causes neurological problems. Based on your description, the curved spine, etc, that is a classic sign of Metabolic bone disease.
Which UVB are you using, what type & brand did you get? Is it a flourescent tube or a compact or coil? That would help alot. Some UVB lights are not good, so I need to know the type & brand you are using. Thanks. Good that you removed the screen & lowered the light, but did you replace the light?
As I had said, even increasing calcium when the UVB source is not good, it wont do them any good as they can't absorb it very well.
Calcium 6 times a week is a little much, stick with 5 times. That should be adequate. We need to figure out why he is not absorbing
his calcium properly.

Tracie

 

[mysterysock]

I use Reptisun 10 Fluorescent, I know coils are no-no's. The neurological symptoms were present long before his lack of mobility and odd, flipping behaviors. He has had calcium supplements ever since I've had him, and all the vets I've seen did not think it was a case of metabolic bone disease. It is thought to be purely neurological to make him act this way. When he was active, he would gladly perch on his hammock directly below the UV all day so it can't be a lack of UV exposure, or calcium deficiency. I'm at a loss here.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

The only other things would be a nutritional deficiency, or he was from an inbred coupled parents.
What type of greens & vitamins do you feed him? Perhaps something is being left out. Did you ever get a blood test done on him? If not, I highly recommend that you get one so we can see exactly what his calcium levels are. I honestly do not think it is strictly a neurological problem since he was not born with it. The condition developed. It would be different if he would have been born & immediately exhibited these symptoms, but that is not the case. At what age did he begin having these problems?
Initially, what UVB light did you use, the Reptisun 10 from what I read in your other thread. You had a screen between him & his light for how long?
It is a calcium issue as a neurological disorder does not normally cause marked bone deviations of that magnitude. If he had no bone deviations, etc, then it could be looked at as just a neurological disorder, but since he initially did not have any bone problems, it has increasingly gotten worse which is normally calcium issues. Metabolic Bone Disease, in its later stages, becomes a neurological problem simply because the neurons that are responsible for muscle firing, contraction & relaxation become inhibited due to the lack of calcium ions that are or are not present.
I feel that while you were using the Reptisun10 while it was on top of the screen, he virtually got very little UVB when he needed UVB during his younger days & months. He did not absorb calcium very well during that time, & his bones became leached & have not caught up.
Did you make the husbandry changes we suggested, such as keeping the temps within the 95-110 & increasing his greens for him? Please do not give up on him. I urge you to get a blood test if you have not already. I suggest getting an ionized calcium test to check his 25 hydroxy levels which will show if he is absorbing calcium or how much is absorbed into his bones.
You had mentioned that he improved & had no seizures or episodes when he was using the liquid calcium. Are you still using liquid calcium for him, 5 times weekly?


Tracie

 

[mysterysock]

No I am not using liquid calcium as I was informed that would like to hypercalcimia, which is just as serious as hypocalcimia. As far as UV sources, I have only used the ReptiSun 10 since I have had him, and only using the screen for a short period of time. Please keep in mind that it was not a piece of metal with holes or tightly woven screen. Its approximately .5cmx.5cm square holes with thin, minimal wiring. Personally, I don't believe it inhibited any of the UV reaching him, but just in case it was removed. In my area, no vets are willing to do any blood tests even though they classify themselves as "reptile doctors". So I will have to get in contact with a specialized vet in a big city that hopefully isn't too far away and when I get the money, which is kinda tough right now with this economy. Bluh.

He readily eats his greens which have been a mix of kale, mustard, and turnip greens. He also eats those little instant freeze-dried veggie meals aptly, which surprised me. His protein consists of crickets, roaches, and the occasional waxworms (golly he loves those things).

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Liquid calcium will not cause hypercalcemia as long as it is dosed properly. I use it for all of my dragons & they like it better. I believe that the body utilizes the liquid better than the powder.
Believe it or not, any screen still filters the UVB out. The Reptisun 10 is a great bulb, but it does greatly decrease the UVB emissions. Here is a chart for you to look at regarding the output with screen. I realize it isn't the same type of screen presented in the study, but nonetheless, it is interesting reading for you:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm

I really think a bloodtest would be a good idea, just because it seemed to come on & it was not something that he was born with.
I am just trying to help get you information so we can figure out what is going on so he doesn't get any worse. If you need help finding a herpvet try this link:

http://www.herpvetconnection.com

Tracie