Important Lessons about Kidney Disease

Status
Not open for further replies.
Our sweet, sweet boy Ash just passed away yesterday morning (I will post a memoriam in the memories forum), and all signs point to end-stage kidney disease / renal failure. In hindsight, I should have seen all of the red flags... but every time we took him to the vet, we were assured that we were doing everything right and that he seemed very healthy (but incompetent vets are part of the problem! Not once did our vet even suggest a blood panel... a blood test was never even attempted until he started black bearding and getting sunken eyes for several days and we took him to a "specialist" but by then it was too late, and his blood pressure was too low to even get a reasonable blood sample.)

I just want to share what I have learned from this -- since the vets were of no help, and I thoroughly researched things on this forum and elsewhere online, and never once was pointed in the direction of possible kidney problems. There is plenty of talk about MBD and ADV, but little consideration of other major issues like those affecting the kidney. And, yes, once kidney disease gets to an advanced stage (when the real symptoms show), it is too late to make a recovery... but I can't help but feeling if we had known sooner, we could have maybe halted its progression.

I am hoping I can educate some other people and, if they search the forums (like I did) for some of these subtle symptoms or warning signs, they might be able to save the life of their loved one.

THE IMPORTANT LESSONS LEARNED (I will summarize first, elaborate later):
1) Get a good vet, and don't wait until signs of trouble
2) Insist on (and be willing to pay for) early diagnostic tests (fecal exam + bloodwork, at least)
3) Absolutely, positively make sure your UVB source is good (and keep backups and spares ready!)
4) Be very careful with diet and supplementation (including dry foods, calcium, and vitamin D)
5) Pay close attention to hydration
6) Don't ignore subtle warning signs - lumps/bumps, long times between bowel movements, smells (like urea)
7) DON'T WAIT until symptoms get bad (by then, it is too late)
 

Aaradimian

Juvie Member
So very sorry for your loss and thanks for sharing. These little guys are troopers when it comes to showing outward signs of illness, and it's important we all know what to look for. RIP Ash :(
 

karmakollector

Member
Original Poster
1) Get a good vet, and don't wait until signs of trouble:
It is worth driving an extra distance or maybe even paying a little extra to find a vet that is proficient with bearded dragons. And that seems not so easy to find. Both our regular vet (a generalist) and an "exotic animal specialist" we eventually consulted in the very end seemed somewhat clueless. (In fact, the exotic pet specialist -- who supposedly specialized in birds, rabbits, and reptiles -- made me feel like there were red flags when she said things like "you shouldn't give him a 100 degree basking spot... that is way too hot. It should only be 80-90 degrees." and her technician also said "Bearded dragons don't hibernate" and I replied "Well, no, but they can go into brumation, which is like hibernation." and she replied "No. They don't do that. And we don't make them do that here." and this was a "SPECIALIST"... one of their consulting vets is listed as the staff vet of the famous Monterey Bay Aquarium!)

It was 7 months before I first took Ash (purchased as a 5-6 month old juvenile from Petco) to a vet, and it was only because he started exhibiting worrying symptoms of being wobbly/off-balance. This was about 1-2 weeks after he mysteriously started doing some hardcore glass surfing at the back of the tank (usually he glass surfed the front, and I assumed it was just because he wanted to come out sometimes or wanted attention -- which is a possibility -- but it turns out he was also ailing in more than one way!) It was very upsetting to see him this way, so I urgently set up an appointment with a generalist pet hospital, seeing that they had a variety of animal clients represented on their website -- mostly dogs and cats of course, but also pigs, chickens, and yes some reptiles, too. This seemed reassuring. When we took him in, they examined him and concluded there was a calcium deficiency, but reassured of a positive prognosis if treated with extra dosing of calcium and a change of the UVB bulb (see, we had been giving good calcium supplementation with D3, BUT the UV bulb, despite being a good one, was 7 months old and, even though the package said it was good for 12 months, that is not the case, not even for strong tube ones as some people had suggested online.) However, they did no further tests -- no bloodwork, no xrays, no fecal. Well, we were given liquid calcium to inject, and we got a new UV bulb ASAP (but "ASAP" took far longer than it should have, thanks to the fact that it is not stocked in any stores, and when I ordered from Petco online, they never sent it... then they promised to send one, but would not expedite the shipment... and then sent it with zero padding in the box, so it arrived in a million shattered shards.)

The new light and the calcium boosts did work, though, so I trusted the vet since he had seemed to cure my boy. Still, when we took him back in, we decided to ask for a fecal test (that's the problem -- the vet was never recommending any tests, which in hindsight I feel like he should have, even though I do appreciate not being treated as a moneybag to be sold additional fees...) since the paperwork had asked if he had ever been dewormed. Sure enough, the test came back positive for very high count of trichinella, so we were given medicine for that, and it worked. Ash was clearly so thankful for the relief of the discomfort that he had been experiencing for who-knows-how-long, and he was a new beardie -- a healthy-seeming, adult who was so sweet, gentle, and affectionate (while still being energetic enough to like exploring and climbing on things.)
But there may have been other, hidden complications that nobody could see. For example, after the treatments, he developed a hard lump on the bottom of his jaw... like, the left side of his lower jaw was swollen, but it was not soft, was not an infection, and didn't seem to cause any pain. When we ended up taking him back to the vet for a check-up, we had them check that out (and we insisted on an x-ray to see how bone density was doing), and they said his bone density was great and the growth appeared to be a calcium deposit, nothing to worry about (which may be the case -- I had heard of some beardies somehow depositing liquid down there in their mouths, and if he had done that with the calcium liquids, perhaps it made a calcium deposit? But in hindsight... could it have been a form of gout / uric acid crystallization?)

2) Insist on (and be willing to pay for) early diagnostic tests:
As stated in the story above, our vet never once suggested we do any specific tests for any ailments Ash had over the course of his life -- which included the ataxia first, then also a case of not eating for 2 weeks (they just examined him, he seemed healthy and energetic, and they conjectured he might just be trying to lose some extra weight he had gained when left at grandma's house while we were on vacation), and then a few months later, a case of not going to the bathroom (which, again, we were given simple info about warm baths and laxatives to help... but no indication that the lack of pooing could be caused by swollen organs or kidney problems!) We almost asked for bloodwork on some of these visits, since we were just curious (and also had heard about latent, asympomatic cases of ADV), but since the vet(s) hadn't suggested it, we trusted them and figured it wasn't necessary. I wish we had gotten a blood test EARLY... like, a full blood panel the first time we ever took him in -- and we should have taken him in for both a blood test and a fecal exam when he was still very young, shortly after purchase from the pet store. (If we had waited and done the blood work too late, and discovered the irreversible kidney disease, it wouldn't have fixed the problem and only would have made us miserable, ruining the precious short time and happy experiences we had left with him. In the case of terminal illness, maybe ignorance can be bliss. But if the illness can be corrected BEFORE it becomes terminal, it is absolutely worth it.) For one thing... the pets can come with illnesses they pick up at the store, especially parasites or ADV, so I would say, check early! And then do checkups again (maybe every 6 months), even if there are not worrying symptoms...

3) Absolutely, positively make sure your UVB source is good:
We started off with one of those little "starter kits" -- 20 gal tank with carpet, and overhead double-lamp for heat lamp and coil-type UVB bulb. This was fine for when he was a juvenile when we first got him, but he was growing FAST so I knew we would need to upgrade soon. As soon as they went on sale, I bought a 40g-long tank, and laid down non-adhesive shelf-liner for flooring. Found a perfect new basking log for him, and more importantly we made sure to research UV bulbs on here, and decided to get a Reptisun 10.0 HO T5 bulb to reach the whole length of the viv (on top of screen.) Ash seemed to love his new setup and it seemed to be working well... but after several months, he started glass surfing way more than usual. At first he would surf the front of the tank, and if I ever took him out to just hold him, or go for a walk with him, that seemed to do the trick and he would be fine after that.
But then he started clawing at the BACK of the tank, which he had never done before and I found odd. It was like he was trying to tell me something -- he kept standing where the UVB power cable was and pawing at it behind the glass... I even said "What's wrong? Are you trying to tell me something about your lights, bud?" (seems incredible that he could have figured out that the light was artificial and that it worked that way through the power cord, but you'd be amazed what Ash could figure out) But the bulb box said good for 12 months, and even when I researched on these forums, some people said most bulbs should be changed every 6 months, but not that particular bulb. So I thought about ordering another one, but didn't... until suddenly Ash seemed very "off" -- he got wobbly and uncoordinated. Couldn't even snatch the bugs with his tongue right in front of him. That was when I booked our first visit to the vet, and he confirmed ANY type of UV bulb should be changed at least every 6 months (maybe 5 to be safe.) Problem was: we didn't have any extras/spares ready! So I looked for them in the pet stores... but none of them stock those T5 tubes (only shorter T8 ones); so I had to order online from Petco. But they botched it and never sent the order. Then the replacement order they set up showed up broken into a million shards because they put ZERO wadding/padding in the box when they shipped it. SO we had to resort to a more expensive, expedited order off Amazon to finally get one.

In retrospect, I should have: (a) had another bulb already at the ready for when it was time to change; (b) changed much sooner; (c) listened to my little genius who was clearly trying to tell me something; and (d) maybe even had some other "emergency backups" like the smaller coil-type bulbs that I could have screwed in overhead.

The result of that scare was diagnosed as a calcium deficiency... but it may have led to kidney problems, as well, because the UV helps with metabolism (including kidney) AND studies have shown that UV-created vitamin D reduces or reverses the effects of kidney damage (and they specifically showed UV-created D, not D3 supplementation. In fact, some of the papers show that D3 supplementation can actually CAUSE kidney damage and gout, because if it leads to excessive blood calcium, mineralization can occur!)

The moral of the story is this: UV might just be the single most important factor in a bearded dragon's health. People know about it for bone density / MBD, but it affects more than that!
It's also possible that they high-dosage calcium boosts I was prescribed to help reverse his calcium deficiency might have led to excess blood calcium, also causing kidney problems... either way, it all started with the UV (because his diet wasn't low on calcium... he was getting plenty of collard greens plus crickets dusted daily with calcium + D3. Which, as I have now come to discover, I would not recommend... just calcium only.)
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am so sorry for your loss of Ash. :cry: It is horrible to lose one no matter how young or old
they are.
I agree, a lot of symptoms are often missed. Vets that are knowledgable on reptiles are very
limited & hard to find. They do hide illness well, that is for sure.
I completely agree that oversupplementation is a leading problem. They are small creatures
so they don't need large amounts. Balance is the key.

Tracie
 

Lmod738

Member
Hello! First I'd like to say that I'm sorry for your loss. Losing these little guys is surely very hard.

Second, I may be going through what you went through and I'd like to ask you some questions. My little guy is at the vet now getting fluids in an attempt to lower kidney values.

1) What weird walking stuff did Ash have? Mine has had uncoordinated leg movements more or less since I've had him (a couple months). I also purchased him from Petco along with the "kit", only to come on here right after and learn that it was all wrong. I was concerned that his weird walk was due to poor husbandry and was early onset MBD, so I fixed everything and gave it some time and it didn't seem to get any better. I took him to the vet looking for confirmation that the walk was just genetic and not MBD, and what we got was possibly kidney failure.

2) Did you ever get to the point where there was a possible solution but it was just too late? My vet is still TBD on how we will provide supportive care if he pulls through.

3) How did he progress? Was he okay-ish then the walk started, then severe decline? Mine has had the walk a while, but has really a great attitude, perked up and alert. I'm hoping that means we can solve this before it's too late.

Thanks in advance and again, my condolences for the loss of Ash.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

No members online now.

Still Needs Help

Latest resources

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

is tape safe for fixing something in my leopard geckos hide?
Day 3 of brumation. It's a struggle. I really miss my little guy. 😔
Mirage entered brumation yesterday, I'm gonna miss hanging out with my little guy.
Getting ready for another day. Feeling sleepy. 😴
I just walked into my room and instead of looking at me, Swordtail's eyes darted directly to the ice cream drumstick I'm holding

Forum statistics

Threads
156,161
Messages
1,258,389
Members
76,112
Latest member
tlpowell718
Top Bottom