I need your: help, opinions, and suggestions BADLY

[punkrockprincess]

Hi again everyone,

I have been posting here and there random little questions and what-not as I am a new Beardie owner. I decided I would address the topic that I have been putting off addressing because this one makes me feel like a really bad Beardie owner. But first I have to give some background so this all makes sense to everyone as to why I am stuck in this particularly bad situation. This is a extremely long post but I can’t think of any other way to explain how it got to this.

Before I discovered the amazing careguides and helpful knowledgeable people on this board I only had the books my store sold about Beardies to go on and some very misinforming websites. Looking back I see how outdated and just generally craptastic these books were but at the time I considered them my bible. One book even said that it was best to get two beardies it said something of the likes of "beardies show social deprivation if housed alone many will try to communicate with their owners with behaviours such as head bobbing and arm waving". I thought that was awful sad and thought to myself "they must be like Guniea Pigs then, they do poorly and get socially deprived when housed alone". During the two months I spent basically memorizing these stupid books I was buying slowly stockpiling stuff for the new Beardies I planned to buy and sharing everything I was learning with my boyfriend. I told him we just HAD TO HAVE TWO BEARDIES; I kept getting flashbacks of this Guniea Pig a customer returned that was housed alone and how sad and awful the little guy seemed. Luckily the book told me one true fact which is, that two males can't be housed together so I aimed on getting two females.

Early December beautiful leatherback Cawley redX Hypo tangerine Gaz came into my life. I had gotten her from what I assumed to be the best reptile place in the city and as a bonus they were the only supplier of Daichu Dragons in all of Canada. Knowing what I do now I would have asked them some hard questions about why their Beardies were the way they were. Gaz was 4 1/2 months and roughly 8 inches with a shed constriction on her tail and she was missing part of her claw. I thought was even big for her age back then (now I just feel flipping stupid!) because she was the biggest and brightest out of all her siblings.

I joined the board when Gaz was experiencing relocation stress (something the books never told me about!) and I was freaking out badly. Once I started reading the careguides I was amazed by how wrong the books were! As time went by I forgot to tell my boyfriend all the new info I had been extracting from the careguides here at the board. I think I was just so smitten with new lizard-mommyhood that I didn’t even consider the fact that he might be looking at buying me another Beardie.

I came home December 23 to find another Beardie in the tank with Gaz. My boyfriend looked especially pleased with himself and then very puzzled when I demanded the receipt so I could return the new Beardie. It turns out that my boyfriend had thrown the receipt away because he couldn’t fathom me not wanting another Beardie..afterall, I had said that it was absolutely necessary to have another Beardie in order to have happy long living Beardies. I do love seeing them talk to each other and seeing them curl up and sleep together (even though Dante has his own separate little house in the tank to sleep in he chooses to be with Gaz)…but the size, age difference and sex difference made/makes me damn nervous…and its only a 40 gallon reptile tank.

Bad went to worse when three days later I picked up the new Beardie that I had named Dante (yes as in the Divine Comedy I figured it was a unisex enough name ) and discovered that it was a male. I almost started crying right there because I knew there was no way I could afford to get a completely new tank seeing as getting everything for Gaz had cost me an arm and a leg and I was (still am) in school and working part-time along with the living expenses of recently moving out and living with my boyfriend. Gaz was already costing me almost $30/week in crickets and that’s with my employee discount!

So here I am stuck with two Beardies that are both undersized for their age with Gaz measuring just over ten inches@ five months and Dante measuring 8 inches @ what is assumed to be 2-3 months of age. Dante has trouble catching crickets and often misses but I will try putting crickets in the fridge for a few secs like you guys suggested. Gaz is blissfully unaware of her large size (compared to Dante) and I sometimes come home to find her almost pushing Dante off the basking spot (I have two set up but for some reason they only bask together not separately). I have discussed selling Dante or giving him up for free to a good home but it really hurts my boyfriend’s feelings and to be honest I’ve started to become rather attached to little Dante and all his quirks. The soonest I can afford a full new 40 gallon tank with lights and all the rest is probably May. So everyone…I need your advice on what I should do to try to give them the best life possible together for the few months that they have to be housed together. I need all your help and all your suggestions…seriously anything! The worst case scenario (if money gets more tight for me than it already is) is them being housed together till September since I have decided upon taking one with me when I go away to Vet school.

 

[Gail]

Its really sweet that your boyfriend did that but you aren't going to like what I have to say.
Beardies can breed at 4 months, its uncommon but it can happen and as small as your girl is, it could be deadly. She is also so much bigger then dante that I foresee domination problems. What you see as cute behavior such as sleep or sitting together is actually the beginning of domination. Basically one dragon is telling the other, I'm tougher then you and I want everything you have, even your sleeping/basking spot.

You have to find a way to separate them and soon, 2 months at most is my recommendation. If that is impossible then rehoming might be the best choice. If I was in this situation, I would rehome him but thats just my opinion.

 

[punkrockprincess]

I had a gut feeling that Gaz was being a bully my boyfriend just thinks they're in love. The thing that confuses me is that I don't get why Dante is sticking to Gaz's side of the cage and not the new neat little area I've given him..it is basically a duplicate of Gaz's side of the tank with a slightly higher basking spot. The basking spot she pushes him from is on her side of the tank...I don't know why he won't be on his side...I thought the higher basking spot would be more appealing to him since he loves to climb. I am trying to convince my boyfriend to see the Beardies for what they are; wild animals that don't really feel love for eachother..but he is stubborn.
Dante does confuse me...he waits till Gaz falls asleep and then goes running from his side to go sleep with her...what gives!? If she's a big mean bully than shouldn't he be minding his own business and trying not to piss her off?
So I have been thinking maybe I can do a 20 gal since its way less expensive...how long would he be good in there for? And how old do you think he is juding by the pic? I took a guess of 2-3 months but I am still new to the BD world and even newer since I am relearning EVERYTHING. Do you think Dante is having trouble eating because Gaz makes him nervous? I noticed something rather curious last night...Dante waited till Gaz had her fill on crickets and then started to eat. I am still glad its a bigger female with a smaller male because I think it would be way worse if things were switched.

 

[Gail]

He might be small but he still wants to be boss, thats why he keeps going over to her. Its this behavior that ultimately leads to fights. Unlike a dog, they will never establish a pecking order, the fight for dominance will always be there even if there isn't any actual physical violence.
Dante waited to eat because he is intimidated by her, would you walk up to the school bully and steal his lunch? I don't think so.

A 20 gallon would be ok but not for long, depending on how he grows he may need a new tank in 2-3 months. Watch craigslist, you can often find cheaper tanks on there or call around to different mom and pops pet store to see if they have a cracked tank for less.

You need to either try harder to educate your boyfriend or stop listening to him. If something isn't done soon, dante could get eaten, it won't be long before Gaz is much bigger then him, especially if she is getting the lions share of food. I would guess dante is 2-3 months but as you know, if he received poor care, he could be much older.

 

[tank4102]

I agree, The smaller one is trying to establish dominance. If i were you i would either get a new tank ASAP or rehome him. Also what is your setup right now?what greens are you feeding them?

 

[carmdac]

Hello! I wouldn't beat your self up over this. 1st off as stated look in local craigs list or want adds for cheap tanks. 2nd is don't use your discount for crix, $30 a week is way too much. Mail order ans in bulk. Either find an mutual size crix for both like 3/8" and order 3000 or so for a couple weeks supply or get 1000 3/8 and 1000 1/2" which will still last a couple - few weeks. just don't leave them together for long and make sure they are both fed enough not to nip each other.

Good luck to you

 

[MissT]

Hey there and welcome....

Just something I thought of - rather than buy a 20gallon that you will have to replace in no time at all, you could, temporarily split the 40g you have until you get the new set up ready - that way, you will nip any dominance issues in the bud and be able to get an appropriate forever home for Dante much quicker I know its not ideal, but it would work temporarily.

T

 

[keschete]

I agree, cut out a big piece of cardboard and tape it in with masking tape. Divide it in the middle. They will be fine. My guys stayed in smaller tanks until the were 8 months old. Ash was in a 20 gal long. So dividing is perfect, especially since you have two basking spots. Make sure they have enough of a heat cold gradient with the smaller sections.

You can not take the chance of leaving them together....someone will end up as lunch, my guess is Dante....