I hope its not time

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kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Has a vet checked him ?

Very worried that you say the sand comes in a bag that says calcium carbonate (sand)...:( if it is calcisand ( = calcium carbonate sand) and he's been ingesting it .... that's bad. Checked Exo Terra site and they don't seem to have calcisand , but a few varieties of what they call "desert sand" , I can't see a chemical composition of their sands on their site. Perhaps it's on the bags or the boxes the sands come in. (PLEASE CHECK this.)
I know some reptile specialist brands sell calcisand as calcisand and market it as ideal for beardies :eek: !!! shocked !
here's an xray I saw on another board of beardie who has ingested calcium carbonate sand which has become impacted with concrete like impactions in it's gut ....
impaction01.jpg



Very few beardie keepers here (in Australia) use exo-terra's fake (desert sands) , those who use sand use regular dry screened playsand (comes in 20kg bags from local hardware bigboxes).

If he's used to and likes sand, let him keep it unless it's calcium based sand.

I noted that you have both the lights ONTOP his tank's mesh top. I recommend as soon as you have a time (you''ll only need 5 - 10 minutes) and it will cost you under a $1 to do it , is that you move his UVB light from ontop the mesh to under the mesh , hanging it pendulum style if it's in a dome style reflector from the mesh (cable ties or twist ties will secure it very easily as the dome style reflector the compact UVB light is in is quite light.
Make sure the compact is equivalent to a 26W UVB200 (10% UVB + 30% UVA) . I'm not sure Flukers' brand compacts are good quality , I suspect they are Chinese made knockoffs of the high quality / more expensive brands. If in doubt , replace the Fluker's compact UVB with a brand new 26W UVB200 would be a very good start , the boost in UVA is likely to help him perk up and boost his apetite.
I also suggest locating the UV light as close as practical to the basking light, this way when he's basking he''ll be sunbaking and soaking up UVA and UVB too.
You can install a T8 or T5 10 - 14%UVB tube if you the money , this will be better as the UV(A+B) will he high over more of his tank rather than focused in place like now.

Looking at his head he is pretty emaciated, his head fat pads are really sunken .... :( .... I think he's at point where you will need to use liquid food suppliments or those that form a syringeable paste / slurry when made up with water in order to build him back up and give him a boost. He's got very little energy because he's not been getting enough protein and calories inputted to his body and he's essentially been burning up fat reserves and muscle to get energy to live.

Extra protein in his diet and extra insect fats (needed to mobilise the proteins in his blood) will help and hopefully he'll start bulking back up and building new fat reserves and regenerating muscles.

I think he's definitely saveable with some intensive care from you , perhaps a couple of meals a day , and clinical help from your vet.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
lilith13":3hot0cp5 said:
and he lifted his head after a bit though when i gave him olive oil, He even started walking around on the bed, hopefully cause he needs to poop now!

He liked the taste of the new yummy stuff and was looking for more ....
 

lilith13

Member
Original Poster
Well guys I was not prepared for what the vet said.. It is not impaction. In fact the vet said there was no food in there, and that he was starving! He said alot of times its a metabolic bone infection. Quagmire got some shots, antibiotics, and some calcium supplement. :( Now he gots a heating pad for under the tank for night, and some baby food so I can force him 6 times a day. Wow! I did it once though, it is a 2 person job. (the doctor used a tongue depressor to open his mouth)
And I need to clean his house soon even though Im wiped out but now Im freaking about the sand. Its not the exo-terra that said calcium carbonate, i was wrong; the colorful sand says that -RepTerra.

90997-1665542657.jpg

90997-4919179319.jpg

Further update: I adhered the night time heating pad to the side of his house. After two feedings he looks a bit better and even chased after some crickets that were still there from last time.

90997-6861517774.jpg
 

kingofnobbys

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lilith13":oingwdar said:
Well guys I was not prepared for what the vet said.. It is not impaction. <<< Well, you have to be greatly releaved about that. I would be. In fact the vet said there was no food in there, and that he was starving! <<<< extra food every day and few months and he'll probably be back to his old self .... He said alot of times its a metabolic bone infection. Quagmire got some shots, antibiotics, and some calcium supplement. <<<< are you required to give some liquid calcium orally each day ? been there done that , for Lucky it was CalciVet and he loved it.... was licking it off my figures after I'd given him his daily dose by cannular tube + syringe into his mouth. Different story with his oral antibiotics .... he hated the taste of that stuff and it was a two man job getting his dose into his mouth using the same cannular tube and syringe ..... I'd have a crazy little skink under my hand for a minute or so afterwards .... :( Now he gots a heating pad for under the tank for night, and some baby food so I can force him 6 times a day. Wow! I did it once though, it is a 2 person job. (the doctor used a tongue depressor to open his mouth) <<< been there done that, they know how to make force feeding a hard job .
You might find a feeding syringe and a feeding syringe-spoon combo like http://vetafarm.com.au/product/ezy-feeder/ helpful.
And I need to clean his house soon even though Im wiped out but now Im freaking about the sand. Its not the exo-terra that said calcium carbonate, i was wrong; the colorful sand says that -RepTerra.

90997-1665542657.jpg

<<<< easy fixed , remove the existing sand mix, and never use the RepTerra calci-sand product again and count yourself lucky.

Had he ingested it and been impacted as a result his prognosis would be extremely poor. That stuff is lethal to lizards who happen to ingest it.


90997-4919179319.jpg

Further update: I adhered the night time heating pad to the side of his house. After two feedings he looks a bit better and even chased after some crickets that were still there from last time.

<<< I think it'll be better if installed to the top surface of glass bottom of his tank, then covered with a layer of ceramic tiles (to prevent direct contact with it and keep it in place and even out the temperatures).
I'd also attach a temperature probe connected to a digital thermostat (that I'd set it to 36-37oC no higher) to the top of the cover tiles , and then cover the probe, tiles and heatpad with the desert sand = will give him a nice warm spot to nap.
Kinda similar to what I do for all my skinks and dragons see viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976&p=1746469&hilit=heatpad+safe#p1746469

90997-6861517774.jpg
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

He does look more alert!
Which UVB are you using now, did you change to an Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb?
Continue the supplemental feedings right now for him, along with insects that he likes too.
Hydration is a huge factor here, so try to get oral fluids into him also.
The daily calcium right now is important for him. So be sure you have a good UVB light to help him absorb his calcium & vitamins, too.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

lilith13

Member
Original Poster
I feel like he looked better yesterday than today. His beard stayed black all day today and his scales or quills seem dry. :cry: I'm giving him baby food mixed with water through a feeding tube like the vet said, then tonight i also gave him 3cc's of water after the food. Oh also, i got the crickets that are in a can (like spagetti-os) but they weren't dry and crunchy like i thought they'd be, they're more like raisins so i couldnt get them to where they didn't clog the tube. I don't know, the doc wants to see him again tomorrow.

:(
 

lilith13

Member
Original Poster
I took him back to the vet but they closed at noon today. I did not hear them say that they would close early! I think he looks better , but I would feel better not waiting till Monday. What do you guys think? I've been feeding him with the tube, not sure he's crazy about it, also giving water with it, then gave him a bath just now. Can they get too much water? Since usually they dont drink it? Here are three new pictures one from last night and two from just now:

90997-9036393179.jpg

90997-4204722513.jpg

90997-8689467222.jpg

this is when I first started asking questions:

90997-7229828797.jpg
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, your poor boy is really fighting ! He is severely emaciated which also means he's dehydrated. Are you feeding with a syringe or actual tube feeding ? If you're doing that 6 times cut it down to 3. As long as he's getting some nutrition + hydration he may make a comeback, but it will be touch + go, he may go either way. A vet will not be able to do more than you are doing, so don't stress him by taking him in. Cut the baths out, too. That will be stressful unless he actually drinks the baths will not do anything for him. If he does drink in the bath you might do a 5 minute soak every 3 days but pat him dry + put him back in the heat of the tank immediately after.
 

lilith13

Member
Original Poster
Got some advice and according to the thermometer it was only 75 in his house. (since iit still says that im not sure about the thermometer now though) I got a stronger bulb and he immediately started basking:

90997-102691148.jpg

90997-8937674099.jpg

*Crossing fingers*

someone asked about the feeding tube:

[ximg]90997 4141904926[/ximg]
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is your boy doing this evening?
Have you measured his basking temperature also? He needs it at a range of 95-110F with a cooler area of about 78-82 or so.
How far down into his mouth/throat are you putting that feeding tube?
Keep him around 80 overnight to help his immune system right now. Let us know how he is doing!

Tracie
 

lilith13

Member
Original Poster
He looks fatter I think I'll post pics in a bit. I'm at home depot. I have syne time that I think is ceramic. It looks glossy though. I think i found some. So confused.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Wow, is he basking on his own there ? Good for him. :) He definitely needs some good heat, about 100-105 in the basking area, 80-85 cool side. By the way, you don't need tile for a sick old beardie, it will be colder at night [ think of walking across a carpet compared to a cold tile floor ] and hard on his bones. Non adhesive shelf liner or layers newspaper would be much better.
 
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