Hypercalciumia...vet is at a loss. Seeking help!

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is your girl doing today?
I figured Leezardo was a female! At least though, she doesn't have any eggs right now.
It will take some time for her to pull some weight, but she can do it. Simply by increasing her greens & vegetation & keeping her bug intake to a minimum.
You can eventually get her to exercise more, by letting her run around more often once her hand starts to feel better. Swimming is great exercise for them also.
There are a lot of terrible products on the market, unfortunately.
How are the temperatures coming along, I hope you can get the basking temperatures up some for her also. Which UVB are you using now, the Reptisun 10 tube?
I'm glad you did get the hammock out so she doesn't injure her hand further.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[leezardo]

Hi Tracey

The zoo vet kept her overnight (easiest option since our schedules were mismatched) but I get her back tomorrow. She will have had a total of 3 laser treatments by then. If it shows success, I am hoping I can get our local vet to let me use theirs for a low price. It was very expensive when I had my dog there for her treatments. The zoo vet is only charging $10 a session. I know we didn't pay anything close to that! The vet here that I initially went to and referred me out wants me to update her. So, I might be able to work something out because of her curiosity

Yes, I am using the Reptisun T5 10.0 tube with the matching reflecting hood. I have a 5.0 in the same kind of hood because I wanted it to go across the entire tank. Now, I am not sure if that is needed since she stays on the one side right now. Still trying to figure out how to get the basking temp up based on what I have. I think I need to somehow make a safe way for her to get closer to the top of the tank. My current lamp holds up to a 150 watt flood light. I got a digital thermometer that records the current temp in addition to the day's high and low which has been helpful.

Big girl needs a mini treadmill! I bought a kitchen scale to monitor progress. Maybe her and I can go on a diet together! I am going to check into the silkworms as her bug.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hi Tracey

The zoo vet kept her overnight (easiest option since our schedules were mismatched) but I get her back tomorrow. She will have had a total of 3 laser treatments by then. If it shows success, I am hoping I can get our local vet to let me use theirs for a low price. It was very expensive when I had my dog there for her treatments. The zoo vet is only charging $10 a session. I know we didn't pay anything close to that! The vet here that I initially went to and referred me out wants me to update her. So, I might be able to work something out because of her curiosity <<<< please ask the "retired zoo vet" to write a report / letter detailing his findings , diagnosis and recommended treatment , much better than relying on your memory - especially where you might not understand fully what is going on or why.

Yes, I am using the Reptisun T5 10.0 tube with the matching reflecting hood. I have a 5.0 in the same kind of hood because I wanted it to go across the entire tank. Now, I am not sure if that is needed since she stays on the one side right now. <<<< lizards / including beardies like to have gradients (thermal, light and UVA flux and UVB flux) , and will seek out the level of heat , light , UVA and UVB they need and move between high and low during their day as needed.

Still trying to figure out how to get the basking temp up based on what I have. I think I need to somehow make a safe way for her to get closer to the top of the tank. My current lamp holds up to a 150 watt flood light. I got a digital thermometer that records the current temp in addition to the day's high and low which has been helpful. <<<< a wire cage around the basking light and fixture wlll make it impossible for her to actually get close enough to burn herself .... ie http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vivarium-Heat-Guard-Reptile-Safety-Light-Bulb-Cage-In-3-Sizes/172322674429?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D6e1561db2c234044a2a314f3d1549ddc%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D272491489915

Big girl needs a mini treadmill! <<< a daily period to explore and roam about on the floor in a safe area of the house will help there
I bought a kitchen scale to monitor progress. <<<< very good investment (I weigh all my gang every Saturday before they get their meal of bugs and greens , I do this religiously and graph the results , more frequent weigh ins are pointless

Maybe her and I can go on a diet together! I am going to check into the silkworms as her bug.

<<< she'll love them .... all mine love their silkworms .... I've restarted giving them two (medium = 2 inch) silkworms each per day this week as well as their daily rations of crickets and greens.

See my threads on silkworms and blanching fresh mulberry leaves for freezing and use in the offseason....
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=222193
blanch and freeze those surplus mulberry leaves while they are easy to get
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=221814

 

[leezardo]

Thank you for your response!

I ended up moving the heat lamp into the cage and it has made a big difference. I was experimenting and added an infrared light and the temperature skyrocketed to 118. Little too hot.... The light is definitely high enough that she can't touch it, but it is pointing at an angle and I am afraid it will bother her eyes. She had her back turned to it today, so I am assuming it does.

She is still holding her arm backwards, but sometimes when she walks, she isn't limping. So there must be some progress. Going to keep on with the frequent soaks and daily exercise. I'm a teacher and I have been bringing her outside with me while I work on my grad school assignments.

Definitely going to get silkworms. I leave for vacation next week, so I need to make sure I order them so they arrive when I am home. I've never heard of mulberry leaves...will read up on that!

 

[kingofnobbys]

Thank you for your response!

I ended up moving the heat lamp into the cage and it has made a big difference. I was experimenting and added an infrared light and the temperature skyrocketed to 118. Little too hot.... The light is definitely high enough that she can't touch it, but it is pointing at an angle and I am afraid it will bother her eyes. She had her back turned to it today, so I am assuming it does.

She is still holding her arm backwards, but sometimes when she walks, she isn't limping. So there must be some progress. Going to keep on with the frequent soaks and daily exercise. I'm a teacher and I have been bringing her outside with me while I work on my grad school assignments.

Definitely going to get silkworms. I leave for vacation next week, so I need to make sure I order them so they arrive when I am home. I've never heard of mulberry leaves...will read up on that!

If you find a grove of mulberry trees in a park and they have berries on then, take a bucket and fill it with the berries while you are picking leaves (pick the leaves but leave the trigs intact, that way when a few weeks when you need more fresh leaves they will have sweet fresh leaves all over the once denuded twigs and it will encourage the tree to produce more leaves and more fruit).
Mulberry pies and tarts are a childhood fav of many people in my age group (50s, 60s, 70s and older) and are great served cold with icecream as well.
When I was a kid , there was a mulberry tree in many backyards because the berries are yummy and the trees are very hardy and shady. Mind you houses were all on 1/4 - 1 acre blocks when I was a kid so there was plenty of room a few big berry bushes or trees or fruit trees - a thing if the now with kids wanting monster houses (their own Taj Mahals) on tiny 500-650 hectare blocks with maybe room for swimming pool and not much else in the back yard.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How are things coming along?
I hope you have been able to adjust the lighting & temperatures, as 118F is too hot.
So she is walking a bit better on her arm?
Do you have someone to watch her while you are on vacation or will you you just be at home?
I hope she is feeling better & keep up the daily exercise for her also. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[leezardo]

I know it has been a while (like a month!) but wanted to post an update. "Leezardeesha" as my daughter now calls her :lol: really hasn't had any changes. Weight is maintaining at 586 grams, even though I have reduced feedings as suggested. I started hornworms for the first time this month. I am not sure I can handle those. The poop is horrendous! Leezardo loves them though. I have been giving a big fat one once a week, then assorted salad every other day. Frequent baths and still picking dead scales off the bad toes and tail. Covering tail with manuka honey when it wears off.

The vet would like to continue infrared treatments three times a week. The problem is he lives about 45 minutes away, and that is a lot of gas and time for me to commit to. Going to try to work something out though.

She isn't limping as bad, but can still tell that leg is tender as she doesn't want you to mess with it. Overall, I would say she is doing the same or a little better. I have been putting her outside lately for natural sun and heat and that seems to make her happy.

Fingers crossed!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That sounds good, Leezardeesha is slowly getting better. It does take time because they do heal
up very slowly! Taking her outside should help a lot as well as lift her spirits to be in the sunshine also.
I hope she eventually stops limping on that leg!
So she likes those hornworms then? I am glad to hear she is maintaining her weight & enjoying her greens, too. Keep us posted on her progress.

Tracie

 

[kingofnobbys]

An interesting tidbit I posted elsewhere on the dangers of using vitD3 fortified suppliments (in leu of adequate UVB).
There is a difference in how synthetic vitD3 and naturally form (by the body) vitD3 behaves in the body of animals.
Synthetic vitamin D3 lacks the transporters and co-factors associated with naturally occurring vitamins because they have been “isolated” , isolated vitamins cannot be used or recognized by the body in the same way as the natural version.
Furthermore the synthetic version of Vitamin E is often referred to as the dl- form. The dl- form is a combination of the d-form (which, by the way, is the naturally occurring form) and the l-form. A reptile's body doesn’t actually use the l-form- it is excreted or the fat soluble vitamin D3 in their synthetic form are especially dangerous because they can build up in the fatty tissues and cause toxicity. The reason that the synthetic form is more dangerous is because they can result in a high, concentrated serving of the vitamin rather than the amount that the reptile would produce with exposure to UVB.
Vitamins A, D, E and K are all fat soluble.

Some extra tidbits https://www.choice.com.au/health-and-body/medicines-and-supplements/vitamins-and-supplements/articles/vitamin-d-deficiency

 

[kingofnobbys]

A few interesting comments I saw regarding calcium and vitD3 supplementation : https://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/threads/eastern-water-dragons.222354/#post-2514426 by
Bluetongue1 . Ref to posts #10, #14 and #17 .... wrt to excessive use of VitD3 fortified calcium and suppliments and effects of this on the dragon's health.