Help! Bearded dragon paralyzed??

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Drache613

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Hello,

I hope he enjoys his sunshine tomorrow, it will be good for him!
How quickly did this swelling start up?
Gout can be caused by a few things. Genetics always play a role in health issues, but also
diet & husbandry, too. If he did have a touch of gout, perhaps it would be pseudogout which
is curable & is caused by improper diet & supplemenation, etc. Visceral gout is just full blown
gout which isn't curable but if caught early, it is manageable. It is caused by a lot of the same
reasons but maybe chronic dehydration or genetics may be more of the deciding factors.
How is he doing today?
I don't think any cool damp cloths would help out for his leg swelling. Just keeping him well
hydrated, & focusing on keeping him comfortable can keep him from getting stressed too much.
Hopefully the new light will help out for him pretty quickly.
I am glad to hear he is eating the baby food without any trouble, he must like it some!
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

Tabitha

Member
Original Poster
I hope so too he was sluggish today. Yesterday around lunch time I noticed he was puffed up on all 4 limbs today he's a lil bit more puffed and his jaw /beard line is too. I got him from petco so he could very well have it in genetics. As far as diet he eats crickets I usually give him kale and turnip greens along with the bag dehydrated omnivore mix (once I rehydrate it) He hasn't been much of a drinker but lately before he got sick he's drank more regular and especially now that I syringe a good lil bit every time he let's me.
He's been kinda down today and went to sleep kind of early today I think he's in some pain I feel so bad for him. I wish I could do something just to ease the pain a bit I know he's uncomfortable. I do just about all I can to make him feel better. If he gets hot I put water on him to cool him off and let him drink some. I rotate him so he doesn't have to look at the same stuff all the time or get sore. I sit with him more then most the day just to make sure he doesn't get scared of the fan randomly or hear something and he try to hide but can't. I can't imagine how he feels.
He likes the baby food for the most part really likes squash and chicken even tho they both smell terrible.
I should get the liquid calcium tomorrow in the mail how much should I give him I don't have a scale for his size. He's Slightly under weight also.
I really appreciate your help and advice. With out it I would've went crazy by now.
 

Tabitha

Member
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Today I got my crickets so far I ordered smaller ones so it wouldn't be to much on him to eat I managed to get him to eat a few I dusted them with calcium. I was curious if I should be using the one with d 3 or without I have both
 

CooperDragon

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If you have the T5 within about 12'' of the basking area it should provide enough UVB so he can synthesize D3 on his own so I'd use the supplement without D3. When you use a lower powered UVB like the T8 or the UVB150 then the D3 supplement is a good idea.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Tabitha":3rp97u68 said:
Today I got my crickets so far I ordered smaller ones so it wouldn't be to much on him to eat I managed to get him to eat a few I dusted them with calcium. I was curious if I should be using the one with d 3 or without I have both


If you are using a T5HO 10-12% UVB tube in reflector hood or a MVB , and he's getting over 200 microW UVB / sq.cm , the VitD3 fortified calcium powder is a risk (see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=233592 , can easily overdose a dragon with oral vitD3 causing D3 doxicity and hypercalciumia symptoms because the excess oral VitD3 will limit the dragon's ability to metabolise dietary calcium.
I'd recommend calcium powder that is NOT vitD3 fortified or perhaps swap over to something like CalciVet (liquid calcium) dosed based on his body mass while he's sick, unless advised otherwise by a good reptile vet.
 

Tabitha

Member
Original Poster
I have the t8 lamp for right now until the other comes.Im using the non D3 calcium until the liquid comes but I have both kinds. I'm using non D3 since he's going to sunning all day today I got silk worms smalls from coastal silkworms should I give him some of those I heard they help swelling ?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

You can post more pictures of him if you want. How much more puffy has he gotten?
If it continues to that point, I would recommend trying to get a blood test done on him
if you haven't already done so.
How is he doing today?
Which calcium did you order? The Flukers should be D3 free, does it have a mg/ml or a %
listed on the label for strength of the solution?
At least he is eating some of the baby food. You could also add in some sweet potato
too for more flavor.
For now, I would cut the kale down since it does have the tendency to bind calcium
absorption & go with arugula, mustard or collard greens, or dandelion greens, too.
The turnip greens are great so you can continue with those for him.
The silkworms are very healthy for him & do have a special enzyme that can help to
alleviate inflammation & swelling.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Just checking in to see how he's doing...Did you get the new T5 UVB light on him yet? I think you'll see a marked improvement after just a week being under proper UVB, along with using the liquid Calcium. I wanted to ask, I had originally recommended Calcivet as a liquid Calcium, as someone else just did, but you said you bought Flukers liquid Calcium. I'm just wondering if the Flukers liquid Calcium contains anything else in it, like vitamin D3? As already mentioned by someone else, if he's under the Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output tube he'll be able to make plenty of vitamin D3 on his own, so his Calcium supplement doesn't need it. If you haven't yet received the new T5 UVB then continue to use the powder with the D3 that you were, but as soon as you put the new T5 UVB over him, that's when you need to switch to a liquid Calcium without any D3. I'm not familiar with the liquid Flukers Calcium, so I have no idea whether it contains D3 or not. Just wanted to make sure.

Has the swelling gone down at all? You had mentioned that he was "puffing up" quite a bit, and it seemed to be pretty constant, is that still happening? If so, can you post a photo of him "puffed up" so we can see what he's doing? I'm not sure what you mean, they puff up or inflate themselves on purpose sometimes for different reasons. Has he had a black beard at all?

If his legs are still so swollen and he seems like he's sore and not able to move, there are a few things you can try that may not only help the swelling go down some and the pain lessen, but it might also give a clue as to whether or not gout is a possibility or not. I'm really just thinking of him being so sore first, just like you are, I know you want to make him feel better, and the new UVB light will, trust me that is the best UVB light for bearded dragons that is made, hands down. But the constant swelling of his limbs is worrisome if it's continuing. If it has stopped then disregard this...

The first thing you can do is try to find some silkworms online to order for him, or maybe you're one of the lucky people who have a great local pet shop that sells silkworms, I wish I did, all I have is a Petco, they have nothing. Anyway, silkworms are a fantastic staple feeder insect anyway, very nutritious, high protein, high fluid amount, low fat. But they also contain Serrapeptase, which is an enzyme that is naturally derived from a certain type of bacteria, and is known to help quite a bit with muscular swelling and pain. It's an effective antiinflammatory for bearded dragons with gout or other causes of muscle swelling and pain. It's found naturally in the intestines of silkworms, so feeding him silkworms will likely help bring down the swelling a bit and also ease his pain. If you can't find silkworms locally or online for sale (I've had trouble finding them to order before, most places were sold out the last time I looked, but it's been quite a while since I've looked), you can actually just order Serrapeptase online as a supplement. So if you can't find live silkworms you can just order the Serrapeptase and we can help you with the dosage.

The other thing that often helps get rid of muscular swelling and pain associated with gout is Black Cherry Juice/Extract, or Tart Cherry Juice/Extract. You can usually find either the Black Cherry Juice or Tart Cherry Juice at health food stores or at grocery stores like Wegmans, Harris Teeter, and Whole Foods. I actually looked for some and found it in the organic/health food aisle at my local Giant grocery store. If you can find some of that and give it to him with an eyedropper by dripping it on his snout to lick off it can help quite a bit.

The other thing to keep in mind is that whether or not he has gout or just the MBD, he needs to stay extremely well hydrated in order to lower the stress on his kidneys and liver. Unflavored Pedialyte is a very good option to mix in with any slurries or baby food mixed you're giving him. I buy the Walmart brand unflavored Pedialyte often for not only my beardies but also my parrots and my dogs when they get sick. If he's regularly eating the baby food for you, just add a pinch of Calcium powder and a pinch of multivitamin powder to it, then add some of the unflavored Pedialyte in and mix it up well. It's a great way to not only get some nutrition in him, but also some direct Calcium, vitamins, and hydration and electrolytes from the Pedialyte.

I noticed that you said you feed him the freeze-dried veggies/insects in that Omnivore bearded dragon food. Actually, I'm not sure if that stuff has freeze-dried insects in it or if it's just greens and veggies, but either way I'd highly advise against feeding that to him at all. I know that you said you "rehydrate" it, but even if you add moisture to it, it already lost most of its nutritional value long ago, and honestly there really is no point to feeding it to him, while if you feed only fresh greens and veggies he's getting both ample hydration (quite a bit more than rehydrated freeze-dried greens or veggies) and ample nutrition. The greens, veggies, and fruits lose most if not all of their vitamins, minerals, and nutrition during the processing of that stuff by the manufacturer.

So most people recommend not feeding any of those commercially available freeze-dried foods for reptiles, and especially not freeze-dried insects. Never ever feed him any freeze-dried insects, they have absolutely no value to your beardie and will only cause impactions and upset his gastrointestinal system. There was just someone else on Monday I believe that ran out of live crickets and was waiting for their bulk order of them, so he fed his adult beardie that Zilla brand beardie food that has red pellets and freeze-dried mealworms in it. His beardie immediately started eating the freeze-dried mealworms, then he quickly vomited up all of them, threw a black beard, and started twitching and was really very upset. He ended up with a small impaction from the few freeze-dried mealworms he didn't vomit back up. I don't know why all of these reputable reptile supplies companies sell that stuff, but try to stick with only fresh greens like collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, arugula (rocket), endive, escarole, chards, and bok choy, those are the best ones. Try to not feed him much kale, romaine lettuce (or any type of lettuce at all), or spinach, as they both contain a high amount of oxalates, which bind to the Calcium he eats and this prevents him from being able to absorb the calcium. This is also what causes the most common type of kidney stones in people. Since your beardie has the start of MBD, he needs to absorb all the Calcium he can, and kale as well as spinach can prevent him from doing that. It's a shame too because kale, spinach, and Romaine lettuce have very high Calcium content, but unfortunately they also have high oxalate levels...

Keep us updated on how he's looking, and again, if he's still doing the "puffing up", try to post a photo of him doing it so we can see what you're talking about.
 

Tabitha

Member
Original Poster
Hello
I managed to get him to eat a few silk worms and crickets that were dusted with just calcium. I got some water pedilyte mixture in him.
I have not got my lamp yet I'm waiting for it still. I hope to get it soon I paid for express shipping!
The calcium I have is the flukers blue box I don't think there's d3 in it I'll read the ingredients once I get it.
The swelling hasn't went up or down hopefully the silk worms can help do the trick. No puffing just swelling in legs and arms . How many silk worms will it take to help him out ? The only times he's had a black beard is when he got scared outside which he's always done he gets overwhelmed of the sounds and surroundings only.
I haven't been able to find the black cherry stuff no where all near me is foodlions and walmart and I called them to ask and no one could find it after being on hold for 20 min.
I'm no good with measurements so how much calcium and vitamins I don't have a scale and my syringe guidelines have rubbed off of course.
Do I mix the d3 calcium and vitamins or non D3 ?
I will definitely cut out the dried bag foods my boy never really liked it anyway. Hopefully once this is all done I can get him fat happy and healthy. I'll stick to turnip greens and collards or mustards.
Thank you guys for all helping me and giving me advice I appreciate it! I'll keep posting if anything gets worse or better
 

Tabitha

Member
Original Poster
Hello, levi is getting better slowly. Today his eyes are more open, he's more alert and moving around some! He ate a few crickets dusted in d3 calcium and ate a few silk worms too. I'm about to take him out for a few hours so he can get some good sun.His swelling has went down a good bit and I got the calcium in the mail ! Should I wait to give it to him until tomorrow since I gave him 8 crickets with calcium and d3 on them or is it okay to give him a little bit and if so how much? Does the calcium taste bad is he not going to like it? I'm so happy he's getting better. I tracked the light package it should be here in the next day or two. Until then it's natural sun. And sunscreen for me cause yesterday I got sun burnt ?. Thank you guys so much for helping me and definitely him through this.
 

Tabitha

Member
Original Poster
Levi and I have been sitting outside for about 20 min and he went to the bathroom on his t shirt I have him sitting on after he went he nudged himself a lil bit forward and I notice he left spots of pink blood not dark and not alot. His vent isn't bleeding now is this okay ? Everything thing went back in normal and nothing in his poop was hard is this okay did he just strain to hard ? Or rub to hard to soon ?
 

Tabitha

Member
Original Poster
Hello.
Levi has been getting better slowly but surely each day he's got a good appetite and is trying more each day to move I just got my light. The post office had difficulty sending it to me so it was delayed. I just got it and I noticed that the bulb with the lamp itself is only 5. Not 10. But it's still HO and 39 watts is that okay ? Or should I try and get the 10. Another thing is should I mount it inside his tank ?
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Did you get the ReptiSun Terrarium Hood? That ships with a 5.0. It depends on how far you're mounting it but in most cases I suggest getting the 10.0 bulb. I've tested both of them and the 5.0 bulb should sit about 6'' above the basking area and isn't powerful enough to be effective through a mesh top. The 10.0 should sit 8-12'' above the basking area or about 6-10'' through a mesh top.


Here are the test results for reference. I shoot for a UVI between 3-7 over the main basking area.

76248-7328112703.jpg

76248-5109533737.jpg
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That's great you got your light, but too bad it's a 5% & not a 10%. If you keep the 5, then I would
mount it underneath of the screen inside of the tank so that he can be getting maximum UVB
exposure.
You could save up & upgrade to the 10% when you can.
How is Levi doing?
That's great he has a good appetite then. Keep us posted on how he is doing. I hope he keeps on
improving.

Tracie
 
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