Hatchlings Molt and Grow Faster on BSFL Staple Diet

[AHBD]

It's always good to see a wound that heals .....I've had dragons with similar bitten toes that healed and did not fall off. That can happen in any animal regardless of what it's being fed. And if toes were bitten off, they did not grow back, they just healed over at the point of where it was bitten off, as those did.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Suggestions

>>Increase sample size by at least 10x.

>>Ensure all participant hatchlings are fed and housed individually under identical conditions (this will ensure no dominance behaviour will influence the results) .

>>Ensure all have exactly the same access to UVA , UVB , the same temperature basking spot, same D/N schedule (I suggest 15h on / 9h off) and same temperature gradient in each of their tanks.

>>Ensure all participant hatchlings are fed exactly the same protein mass of live insects each feeding.

>> standardise the size (mass per insect) of the feeder insects used, ie try to stay with a standard size BSF maggot and similar with the alternative feeder insect, give or take 10% say wrt mass per insect.

>> standardise your gutloading (what is used , for how many days prior insect being eaten)

>> standardise the calcium dusting regime (to ensure each insect has a similar load of calcium dust adhering to it

>> test the Ca ratio (chemical assay in a testing laboratory) for your standardised gutloaded & dusted insects to ensure you know exactly what the hatchlings are getting (and Include the test reports in your report).

It would be interesting to see effects of using standardised size crickets (who are gutloaded and dusted) and standardised size silkworms (fed using chow , fed fresh black mulberry leaves ( most common variety grown , yes I know ideally they should be on white mulberry leaves but these are quite hard to find ).

Not practical for me to participate in your study as I'm based o/seas in Australia and unfortunately BSF maggots are very hard to come by here, in that none of the insect laboratories breed them for sale commercially.

It's very exciting to see your discussion points! What you just described was a powerful digestibility study if it's done correctly. It does, however, look very expensive, and take lots of time too. This community does need a scientist leader to architect the whole building. However, what we can do is we can start with some affordable small projects, answer one questions at a time, just to build up small bricks for a solid building.

I might have done a poor job to describe the study, so the goal of this study was to demonstrate a real world situation, and thus a lot of parameters were not considered. Per your suggestion, the equal amount protein mass intake, or calcium dusting regime for individual insects were not considered because it's unlikely to occur for pet keepers.

Appreciate your input for the advice. If you are interested in and have time for doing a project with us, we do have access to a start-up bsf facility in Australia, and it should be easy to supply you BSFL. Please email [email protected]

I am not a breeder and don't know when / if I'll have more hatchlings to raise. I'm sure there are local Australian breeders of Rankins, Netteds, Frillnecked and Central Beardieds who will be interested in participating in a study with you (who currently rely on crickets, woodies (roaches) and silkworms as their staples for their very young hatchlings (probably missed the boat for this summer's hatchings though).

The Reptile Park at Gosford may be interested in participating in a larger study in cooperation with your local insect "farm". Or perhaps they can put you onto local zoologists who are interested in doing a university study (perhaps a honours , masters or doctorate project).

I will contact the email address , I'd like to trial my juveniles (13 months old) on large BSL maggots as an option other than the usual crickets, silkworms and superworms.

 

[AHBD]

Bearded dragon growth is dependent on many factors as everyone knows. BSFL is a very good feeder insect, but a balanced diet featuring other insects is best for all dragons. Dusting with at least some D3 is used for most beardies as well, although I agree that too much is not good.

While BSFL are a good food item, consuming them is not going to regenerate missing toes,

 

[Sina]

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[springyfc]

Bearded dragon growth is dependent on many factors as everyone knows. BSFL is a very good feeder insect, but a balanced diet featuring other insects is best for all dragons. Dusting with at least some D3 is used for most beardies as well, although I agree that too much is not good.

While BSFL are a good food item, consuming them is not going to regenerate missing toes,

Sure thing. It's indeed a good point. We are not trying to diminish any type of the feed particularly, we do understand that not any single feeder along can provide adequate nutrients overall for the health of the dragon. We provided this study just as an evidence for our customers to understand it's ok to give dragons BSFL as staple diet, like crickets, superworm, or roaches.

And for the missing toes story, my intention was to say without supplementing nutrients, the dragons can recover on a BSFL diet. And I wasn't meant to say that feeding BSFL can give them super power or anything. Presenting in that way was a mistake due to my lack of common knowledge for the bearded dragons... I am still learning

 

[springyfc]

I am not a breeder and don't know when / if I'll have more hatchlings to raise. I'm sure there are local Australian breeders of Rankins, Netteds, Frillnecked and Central Beardieds who will be interested in participating in a study with you (who currently rely on crickets, woodies (roaches) and silkworms as their staples for their very young hatchlings (probably missed the boat for this summer's hatchings though).

The Reptile Park at Gosford may be interested in participating in a larger study in cooperation with your local insect "farm". Or perhaps they can put you onto local zoologists who are interested in doing a university study (perhaps a honours , masters or doctorate project).

I will contact the email address , I'd like to trial my juveniles (13 months old) on large BSL maggots as an option other than the usual crickets, silkworms and superworms.

Those are very good contacts to have. Thank you very much.

Just put it here so everyone can see. The start-up in Australia is a waste management company, and does not plan to sell BSFL to reptile keepers. If it's for doing a cooperation of research they can fill up a special order with larvae fed special diet for me, but I don't think they can fulfill regular small orders. So don't contact and ask for Australia distribution. Sorry for the disappointment.

 

[springyfc]

Suggestions

>>Increase sample size by at least 10x.

>>Ensure all participant hatchlings are fed and housed individually under identical conditions (this will ensure no dominance behaviour will influence the results) .

>>Ensure all have exactly the same access to UVA , UVB , the same temperature basking spot, same D/N schedule (I suggest 15h on / 9h off) and same temperature gradient in each of their tanks.

>>Ensure all participant hatchlings are fed exactly the same protein mass of live insects each feeding.

>> standardise the size (mass per insect) of the feeder insects used, ie try to stay with a standard size BSF maggot and similar with the alternative feeder insect, give or take 10% say wrt mass per insect.

>> standardise your gutloading (what is used , for how many days prior insect being eaten)

>> standardise the calcium dusting regime (to ensure each insect has a similar load of calcium dust adhering to it

>> test the Ca ratio (chemical assay in a testing laboratory) for your standardised gutloaded & dusted insects to ensure you know exactly what the hatchlings are getting (and Include the test reports in your report).

It would be interesting to see effects of using standardised size crickets (who are gutloaded and dusted) and standardised size silkworms (fed using chow , fed fresh black mulberry leaves ( most common variety grown , yes I know ideally they should be on white mulberry leaves but these are quite hard to find ).

Not practical for me to participate in your study as I'm based o/seas in Australia and unfortunately BSF maggots are very hard to come by here, in that none of the insect laboratories breed them for sale commercially.

Based on your suggestions and with those from others, we have decided to expand the size of this study, besides on expanding the sample sizes, we also want to include more insect species, either feeding as staple diet or as combinations of two of them, hoping with our little force to reveal a better scope.

So if you know anyone who has the interest and capacity/experience of participating the study, please introduce them to us.

Sincerely appreciate your help.

 

[kingofnobbys]

I am not a breeder and don't know when / if I'll have more hatchlings to raise. I'm sure there are local Australian breeders of Rankins, Netteds, Frillnecked and Central Beardieds who will be interested in participating in a study with you (who currently rely on crickets, woodies (roaches) and silkworms as their staples for their very young hatchlings (probably missed the boat for this summer's hatchings though).

The Reptile Park at Gosford may be interested in participating in a larger study in cooperation with your local insect "farm". Or perhaps they can put you onto local zoologists who are interested in doing a university study (perhaps a honours , masters or doctorate project).

I will contact the email address , I'd like to trial my juveniles (13 months old) on large BSL maggots as an option other than the usual crickets, silkworms and superworms.

Those are very good contacts to have. Thank you very much.

Just put it here so everyone can see. The start-up in Australia is a waste management company, and does not plan to sell BSFL to reptile keepers. If it's for doing a cooperation of research they can fill up a special order with larvae fed special diet for me, but I don't think they can fulfill regular small orders. So don't contact and ask for Australia distribution. Sorry for the disappointment.

Oh well , would have been handy to be able to try them out as a feeder alternative.