Gout or something else?

[Crenas7]

We went to the vet today. Leo now has 3 swollen joints...the tech agreed at first that it appeared to be gout. The vet looked him over and said she doesn't think its gout because it wouldn't be just one joint, I pointed out that it is 3 areas. She said maybe mbd, but would need an x-ray, which I didn't have an additional $75 for so she said it wouldn't hurt to wait a few weeks. She told me dibia roaches are the worst and told me to start feeding wax worms. Based on all the research my husband has done, this is gout. The vet tech brought him back out and said dubia are bad for gout, then I pointed out she said it wasn't gout but he said after that he showed her the other 2 swollen areas. They dewormed him and put colloidal silver on his vent area because it was sore after finding him sitting in his poop one morning. He isn't very active, I have to get him down from his tree area just to get him to eat. Not sure what to do at this point. We quit giving crickets because of parasites and switched to the roaches which he eats great. I've read the wax worms are not meant to be a staple like the vet is suggesting. We purchased him on August 15th weighing 8 grams, today he weighed in at 15 grams. Sept 21st I woke up to him not using his back leg and he was just dragging it. Since then it has become extremely swollen, a week later his front let was swollen and yesterday his other back leg closer to his foot has begun to swell. My guess is that he was maybe a month old when we got him.

 

[KarrieRee]

Please dont feed wax worms as a staple feeder unless you want him to have liver issues- they are too fatty - get him over on silk worms -- they are another good staple feeder along w/ BSFL or even crickets but NO wax worms - what are you using for a UVB this is really important brand and bulb and coil or tube please?
Karrie

 

[Crenas7]

We have the Arcadia T5. Would the silk worms be enough for him to grow? He is so tiny and I feel like he should have grown more by now. His legs are so tiny and thin. I'm concerned that if this is gout, at 3 months old, is there anything to reverse it?

 

[KarrieRee]

Where is the T 5? Top of screen or inside the tank and your screen is it a fine holed screen like a screen door or a more open hole screen? I highly doubt he has gout at 3 months old that is pretty young - did the vet do any blood work to test for uric acid levels? That would tell you if he has gout--- what is his diet and is he eating? Silk worms are a great staple feeder along w/ BSFL - if he did indeed have gout then yes he would not be able to eat dubias as much but I am really thinking its not gout especially w/ them not testing uric acid levels--- dragons can get gout but its usually when they are older --- we need Tracie and AHBD to way in on this subject --- and look at him -- if you have blood work from the vet post it and Traci can look at it --- Another reason for not using the back legs is possible impaction -- what are the size of the dubias your feeding -- they should not be bigger than the size between the eyes --
Karrie

 

[Crenas7]

Its on the top of the tank, more open hole screen, we had to switch that out when we first got him because the top it came with wasn't good. Vet didn't want to do any of those other tests. Just told me to let him keep growing and to switch to wax worms ? he is eating small dubias, much smaller than between his eyes. I also keep greens in his cage but he won't eat them. I also tried the bsfl but he won't eat them for some reason.. Poops every day so I dont think he is impacted. He has started using his back leg more but now his other joints are swollen. He has never been active since we got him. Basically sits in one spot and I have to get him down when it's time to eat.

 

[AHBD]

Poor little guy, and such a pretty one too ! I also think that gout is possible even at such a young age and that dubias are likely the culprit. I once saw dubias some for sale and the seller said he fed them a high protein diet, the exact opposite of what they SHOULD be fed to avoid the uric acid building up. So if the dubias are fed even a moderate amount of protein, they develop + store uric acid which is passed on to the beardie , which consumes tons of them, and this can cause bout flare up. That's not a definite on what happened here but it's a good possibility. So be sure to offer as much hydration as possible via syringe, short soaks [ if he drinks in the bath ] and dribbling water on his snout. You can try some dark cherry extract or juice, it might help as well. Crickets are probably the best feeder option, I've used them for 25 years worth of beardies. BTW, can you post a pic of his vent ? That's where fungal infections often develop, and since your vet put colloidal silver on I wonder if they suspect fungus.

 

[Crenas7]

We were using bug burger or superload after being told to. We have since stopped that and I just put a bunch of veggies in with our feeders. I am low on small bugs and my colony isn't producing yet so I need to purchase more bugs, or a different type. I soak him very often and give water by syringe everyday and he drinks with no issue. He seems a little more active today. He saw the bowl of bugs and actually got off his tree. His foot area seems more swollen today, compared to yesterday. Here are pictures. She didn't think it was infected but she said just like when we get cuts you'd want to put something on it. I feel like it looks worse today than before the cream. Maybe dried out today.

 

[AHBD]

It's good that he has an appetite. The vent looks troubling though, is there redness along with the yellow crustiness ? It looks like yellow fungus, poo would have come off while he is being soaked. Did the vet give you silver sulfa cream to keep using ?

 

[Crenas7]

No they didn't give me anything to take home. Its a little pink, kinda raw looking. The yellow is just his skin like dried, no poop on him at the moment. When this started it was after I found him sitting in his poop. I bathed him that day and noticed his skin was slightly raw. Them obviously had to wait over 2 weeks to get him into the vet. Is there someone to buy the cream they use or is it prescription? Trying to do the right thing, my son has been in tears through this entire thing. Its his baby that he got for his 8th birthday. He's such an animal lover and this breaks his heart. I'm wondering if the bsfl were too small and thats why he wouldn't eat them, maybe I'll try some larger ones. I bought medium sized ones but they are so tiny.

 

[AHBD]

Bsfl would be good, large ones are fine for him. I'm so sorry that your son has to see this + feel the anxiety. It would be good to stop bathing him, that can spread any fungus or irritate the raw spot + introduce bacteria. Only bathe him if he soils himself, for now offer oral hydration as you had been. You can use raw unpasteurized honey [ from a health store, beekeeper ] it works as a natural antimicrobial. Also get a small tube of Lamisil antifungal cream. Use a very small drop of each to apply to his vent.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Bless him, I am sorry he is having trouble like this at his age.
I am in complete agreement with AHBD with regards to diet/insects, etc. Dubias are good
feeders but even without gutloading with his protein, they naturally have higher uric acid levels,
more so than other insects. The gutload you were previously using, what brand was it & did it
have a corn & or soy ingredient base?
I am also seeing that most, if not all of the commercialized insect gutloads is riddled with corn
& soy ingredients which are predominately genetically modified organisms. They wreak havoc
on the internal organs of humans, mammals & reptiles.
Silkworms would be an excellent option, very healthy for him.
Which supplementation are you using?
The Arcadia D3 T5 is an excellent light so I would recommend a plain calcium, without any D3
added.
The lamisil can be helpful but so can the raw unpasteurized honey to help with any fungal issues.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Crenas7]

We were using repashy superload. For the supplements we mix calcium with vit d and a multivitamin. His vent area seems swollen compared to when I took him to the vet. Not sure if they made it worse bt cleaning or whatever they did. Sucks not being able to go in like normal so I can see first hand. Joints, especially the foot area are just more swollen with each day at this point I'm not sure what to do, he will pull away any time I touch these areas.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So sorry your little one is getting worse. The vet did not suggest any gout medication,
at all?
Are you using any anti-fungal cream or raw honey on the vent area to help? I would
highly recommend considering starting him on gout medication to help get his uric acid
level lower. What dietary changes have you made for him thus far?

Tracie

 

[Crenas7]

The vet told me she didn't think it was gout. Said just to let him keep growing. So I wasn't given anything. Using Lamisil and switched to cricket until bsfl get delivered.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor thing, how is he doing today? To try & get the swelling under control, I would continue
to get oral fluids into him daily & get him started on some black or tart cherry juice daily as
well.
I know he is young & needs to grow but you probably should keep his insect levels down to
a minimum with focusing on vegetation & fluids if possible. Alfalfa leaf powder or timothy hay
are both good non purine protein sources that you could add to a daily slurry or at least several
times per week to help supplement him.
I also think it is gout, as we are seeing so much of now. Will your vet prescribe any gout meds
for him?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie