Got stool? (no poo pictures, just very detailed info)

[Screamin99]

Hey everyone.. I've been on and off from here trying to resolve my almost 2 year old bearded dragons problem of with holding his stool on me.

I noticed with the last two or three stools that the urates have been very hard, it would almost appear as if its plugging him up! So I searched the root cause for this and it would appear that dehydration is the main cause. So I upped baths to every other day to everyday that I can get him in the tub. Just last night I started giving him water orally to help maybe push fluids into his system. Tonight he gave me a nice load in the bath after I tried to liquefy his greens and feed him a slurry and try and give some water. Urates were hard again, first part of the stool was a normal bearded dragon log but had a air bubble. the next was a semi formed log that was falling apart all over the place and looked as if it had un-digested pieces of superworms in it. After this I also noticed he had a somewhat hard looking white thing hanging out of his vent. I gently removed this and it was followed by yet another piece identical to that which I again removed. I have a picture of this, but I suppose its just a sperm plug?

I bought Lazlo in August of 09 at roughly 5-7 inches long.

His tank setup is as follows
55gallon long
probe temp thermo (wal-mart)
Tile floor
48" strip light across the back with a regular bulb for light purpose's
He has a 60 watt house bulb hanging over his bask for heat and a 24" repti-sun bulb hanging on the back of the tank. (this is 5 months old)
I offer greens daily (collard and turnip usually) Dandelion,Endive and mustards for a change up every now and then when I can find them
I used to feed supers daily/every other day because that was all he would eat most of the time. After his poo issues came I cut them back and he still wasn't eating greens.
Hot side temps seem to be around 100-102 usually during the day
Cool seems to run about 80-85

At night it gets to about 72 or so in his tank.

Im taking the stool to the vet tomorrow for a fecal, just looking for perhaps a bit of guidance? What else can I do? I used to offer calcium and multi-vitamins often, but with how bad he has been with eating his greens I haven't given it nearly as much as I suppose I should, but he shows no issues with MBD and has full use of his legs and arms and moves around well, he has no lumps or bumps either.

 

[GeckoGarden]

It could be dehydration or to much calcium, that's what causes the urates to get hard.

 

[Screamin99]

Thanks for the reply.. I haven't got a reply back from the vet regarding the fecal I took in. The thing is, I was bathing nearly everyday and he is still having a hard urate?

I've been doing slurries of greens and water and he's still "plugged up" Im just somewhat confused because I've been trying to increase his water intake and baths and also I only give calcium maybe once every week or every two weeks due to him not actually eating his greens and the calcium doesn't stick to his supers much.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Gail]

Bathing won't really help a dragon who is already fairly dehydrated, he needs more water orally. How much water is he drinking a day? I would try and get at least 3 CC in him a day of plain water.
He really should be getting more calcium too, supers especially need it. Dust them even if it doesn't stick very well or put a small pinch in his water every other day.

 

[Screamin99]

Thanks gail, I just can't get him to eat greens, and I know that is were he is missing most of his water from. Im going to stick to 5 supers a day and then 3cc of water a day.

I tried to liquify some greens and give those to him with some water and its so thick it sticks up in the syringe tips and when I try to give it to him it will shoot out like crazy and it just makes a mess or he is bombarded with greens all in his mouth.


So, Im going to go with 3ml of water a day and 5 supers every other. How much calcium should I put in his water? I can dust supers I just want him to get an adequate amount.

Thanks for all the help and info everyone much appreciated!

 

[Screamin99]

Bump? anyone?

 

[Screamin99]

I got the results from the fecal back today.. No signs of any parasites at all! No Coccidia, no pin worms. I had fought Coccidia twice and pin worms once. Bathed and gave 5ml of water today. I'll go with 3ml tomorrow.

 

[Screamin99]

Got a wet stool today.. formed, but with a lot of water (duh, I've been dosing water )

So he went on the 2nd and I took the fecal to the vet on the 3rd. Now today he finally went again, 9 days in between he has not eaten any greens and maybe 5 supers? I've tried to just cut the supers out 100% so that he might eat greens and no luck.

Anyone?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Which Reptisun tube bulb are you using, the 5 or 10? At 5 months old, it may need to be replaced. How close is it to him?
Could you post a picture of his tank setup too?
Which supplementation do you use? What brand of calcium & vitamins do you use?
Based on the description of the white substance, it sounds like a sperm plug if it was somewhat rubbery. A urate plug looks much different.
Since he is two, sometimes, they have a harder time digesting & or absorbing powdered calcium for some reason. Some do while others don't.
Adding the oral fluids daily will definitely help. If he just wont eat his greens, you can try getting small pieces of fruit or chop up a worm or two & toss it in with the salad to help entice his appetite there. It may not work, but it is worth a try.
Hard urates are somewhat common & usually associated with dehydration or oversupplementation.
Try replacing his UVB light though, as if it is not emitting enough then he may not be absorbing his calcium & vitamins very well which could also cause harder urates since the calcium is not really being processed very well.

Tracie

 

[Screamin99]

I am using the 10.0 Tube (24") I can replace it and was planning to order one this month actually. Its 11 inches from the top of his bask (it hangs on the back wall of his tank and he lays facing the front. It used to be about 8 inches, but he kept jumping up and hanging on it so I moved it up a bit more to keep him off the bulb so he wouldn't get hurt.

I can certainly post a picture of his setup..

For Supplements I give RepCal with D3 (pink (ultra fine) I was giving this to him every other week because I had read that too much calcium could lead to hard urates so I had stepped back on how often I would give it. I also use the Rep Cal Multivitamins (blue) which I need more of. And I give Acidophiliz+ fairly regular as well.

He actually had the hard urate plug come out first followed by what I could only figure to be a sperm plug.

If I put worms in his greens he will usually pick them out and then leave the rest behind. I have tried Endive, Escarole, Turnip (he hasn't had these in a while though) Collard (this is usually what he gets and he used to LOVE them) And Mustard, although I have not seen it or Dandelions in the store in a long time. He wasnt much on Dandelion greens but would munch on mustard.

The thing that concerns me the most is he simply just doesn't bask. If he eats, he will bask for maybe an hour to a hour and a half sometimes longer depending on how big of a meal he had and then he will jump down and go under his bask . After a bath if I sit him on the bask he will sit for 30 minutes sometimes up to 2 hours. In the mornings he will come out and go sit on the cool side of his tank for about 2-3 hours and bask for about 10-20 minutes at a time half on his rock half off and then eventually he will just go straight under his bask for the remainder of the day.

His light schedule is on at 10am and off at 10pm so a 12hr day.

Here is a picture of his tank, as you can see its a 55gallon long. I labeled all the parts to his tank to show you what lights are where and how they are setup. I checked my bask temps and they are at 98.8*

Here is what he does all day long, sometimes he will have his butt in the hole with his head sticking out, but usually he is face first in this hole just like this. combine this with not eating and not pooing and it just has me worried. He has kinda been this way since he had pin worms.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Thanks for posting the tank setup pictures, that helps a lot.
Do you give a plain calcium a few times a week? He may not be getting enough calcium if you are only giving calcium every other week.
I think one reason he is not wanting to bask is the angle the Reptisun 10 tube bulb is mounted at. The tube bulbs should be mounted directly overhead to avoid the glaring of the UVB straight on. It can be stressful on the eyes, also.
Is the top open, correct? You could get a dual light fixture to mount the Reptisun 10 & the other tube bulb in to get the UVB straight overhead. That way it would be closer to the basking light as well which helps to protect the eyes from the UVB.
Ideally, the Reptisun 10 should be 6-8 inches for maximum exposure.
The tank overall looks great & comfortable for him. How deep is the tank? Does he have any trouble turning around in his tank?
Try that & let me know if there are any improvements on him.


Tracie