Getting meaner

[Gail]

We've all seen the post where new owners have a scared wild baby and the general advice is "give it time", I've give the same advice many times. Now I'm in a situation and I'm not sure what to do. Pig has always been wild, she runs and hisses when trying to hold her. Even the slightest touch or opening of her cage provoked a negative response. Its been over a month and not only is she not taming down but she is getting increasingly aggressive.
Before she would hiss and open her mouth when being held, now she black beards me if I even get close to her cage and she is actively seeking out my fingers to bite. Its still not a big deal as she is small but I've very worried she is going to be one of the rare, truly mean dragons. Has anyone had a excessively aggressive baby who did eventually learn to be nice?
I handle her everyday, am gentle and have tried putting food in her mouth, she will actually spit the food out and bite me anyways

 

[Beardednoob]

Whoa. sounds like she is a handful. I can try my best to offer up something useful. I like these threads as they are are not common knowledge and it gives us both a chance to learn something new and or useful.

Thor was pretty bad after a few days at home. He is his worst if he is sleeping and woken up, still. In the day he had been manageable. Able to pick him up and hold him for a few before he would do his best to try and take off. I began a hand feeding everyday. For you I think the option would be to get some sort of hand protection and try it out give it a few days trying. How small is the dragon?

Other things to consider, I first would make a relation between your dragon and possible environmental issues. Think about everything in the enclosure. Consider all possible pro's and con's to your best ability. Lighting, basking, temperatures, diet etc.. I go here because there may be something the dragon is upset over and has related to you. I know you have a better knowledge base then me but, perhaps there is a chance you may have seen something day in and day out that for you it is normal, consider it like my work. We bring in lean manufacturing personnel to go over things we see on a daily basis, to us it is normal and we wouldn't give it a second thought but, to them it is wrong or odd. Make sense? Can you please post a picture of the enclosure?

Where did you get this dragon from?

 

[Gail]

She's still small enough that I don't need gloves, her bites doesn't do much more then make little marks in my finger nails. She acts the same, day or night, even if I try handling when she is sleepy or cold, she still fights me.
I've tried hand feeding, she has taken greens a couple times but never a insect. She beards at anything in my hand, even her bugs and food dish. She beards when I look at her, when I bath her, when I clean her cage, when I breath lol.

She basks normally, eats really well and has no stress marks. She appears relaxed and stress free until someone gets close to her cage which is in the living room. Basking temps are correct, so is the UVB.

My household is a bit noisier then the people I got her from (craigslist find, breeding dragons in a small cage in the basement) but she seems unaffected by noise and sleeps through my late night TV shows. I have dogs but her cage is high, she can see them but they can't see her. She can't see out the window unless I hold her and let her look.
I really don't think there is anything in the house that would cause her behavior. I'm just really stumped as the only aggressive dragon I've ever met where adults who were never handled. She has been handled since she hatched.

 

[Dementeddogz]

Ive had one or two that came with an attitude and then some. I have a newly hatched leatherback that was delivered grumpy and remained so for quite some time and another who would not let anyone touch him at all and would bounce around his cage to get away. Wasnt as much of a nipper as the leatherback but couldnt touch or hold him. I stuck with it and eventually they mellowed out. The leatherback seems to have grown out of it but still can be skittish from time to time but a huge improvement. The red dragon is nice as can be now. I removed his cave type rock out of his cage for awhile so he didnt have anywhere to sit and sulk. I slowly handled him more and more on a daily basis, slowly ofcourse. He started warming up to me when i started hand feeding him and realized I wasnt the bad guy. Found out a few of his favorite foods, his weakness is blueberries, and hes my best friend now. The only downfall to that is it took awhile to get him to realize i didnt always have food in my hand, but my fingers stayed safe. Theres plenty of texts and articles on aggressive animals, beardies in particular, but i figured id give my 2 cents with two very recent dragons.

 

[Beardednoob]

How old was she when you got her?
How long have you had her now?
How did the people seem, that you got her from?

 

[Gail]

She was 2 months when I got her, had her for a bit over a month now. The people I got her from seemed decent, had a lot of dragons and handled them all properly. They were pretty clueless about some things like they used sand and coil UVB but fed good greens and dubia.

Kaco, did either of your dragon stand on their tippy toes and go all flat and lean to the side? Kinda like you would see males do before they fight? I've seen nippy and skittish dragons before, Pig seems to have taken it up a notch. I hope she does mellow out before too awful long, I don't mind a bit now but in another few months it will be a different story.

I'll try to get a video of her attitude tomorrow.

 

[ziggy23]

I have a strange idea I want to throw out. Well strange in that I wouldn't normally recommend it. Its a huge maybe, it might help, or might make it worse idk.

What if we could hit a reset button? Between moving and her new home being busier, maybe it's just too much for her at once. What I'm thinking is, the memories of the last two weeks are the strongest. For her instead of getting used to things, she's just getting more stressed out. Perhaps if you back off. Try and make things around her calm and her life simple. Give only what is needed for basic care. Even limit how much she sees people or other animals if possible, like moving the tank to a quiet area or covering all the sides. then after a few weeks, slowly start reintroducing yourself and the household. Do one small step at a time. Don't move forward until she accepts the change.

It might encourage the bad behavior, or it might give her the time to adjust that she might need. Which is more likely I have no clue.

 

[Gail]

Its a good idea but I had her isolated when I first got her and I really think that had a lot to do with her attitude, the longer she was out of site, the worse she seemed to get.
I plan on mover her to a bigger tank with a different view sometime in the next couple weeks. I'm hoping that might make her a bit more comfortable.

 

[MissT]

Gail, I went through it with Phoebe. She was around 9months old at the time so had a much stronger jaw!!! Not fun. She did the tip toe thing too. I didn't think she would ever settle. I did the salad that worked for a day... Then I know it sounds silly but I started telling her 'NO!' in a very firm voice whenever she attempted to bite me and handling her regardless of how much she attempted to bite me. Sometimes it hurt Telling her 'NO' seemed to distract her from the biting for long enough forme to get a hold of her- she was on baytril and it was difficut (to say the least) to administer meds to an aggressive biter. It took nearly 6 months for her to calm down - she is still very independent but she does not try to bite any more and she will snuggle from time to time.
Oddly, she didn't display as much negative behaviour towards my hubby...

 

[Gail]

Thanks for that story, that was what I was hoping to hear. I've just never dealt with such a nasty baby before, glad to hear that there is hope lol.

 

[athenacp]

Here is a very far reaching idea....do you wear perfume? Is there a household cleaner that you use or maybe some laundry detergent that you use? She may hate the smell and associate it with you. Only reason I am mentioning this is I remember reading something somewhere maybe 5 years ago about animals and scents...its a longshot but I can't think of anything else.

 

[Gail]

Nope, no perfume and my detergent is scent free. She is like this with everyone, not just me.

 

[AHBD]

To add to the other suggestions, you might try is to pick her up and hold her to your body where she can't fight or wiggle very much. Of course, the biting would occur while being picked up, but do it calmly, firmly and let her stay against you for 5 - 10 min. at a time. Sometimes it just shocks them in to realizing that you are the boss and as bad as she is she's still just a tiny tyke.

 

[Gail]

She actually bites more once I get her in my hands, especially if I touch her head or the side of her mouth. I pretty much force love on her, I tried the slow and gentle approach and that just made things worse. Guess at this point its just a struggle of wills between us.

Oh on a side note, to anyone who thinks this may be stress related. I vacuum out dried greens/bug poo from her cage and today, she was in her dish eating while I vacuumed. This little devil isn't bothered by much. I don't believe she is fearful at all, in fact I think she would smite me and devour my soul if she could, lol.

 

[MissT]

She definitely sounds like a baby Phoebe. I say continue forcing the love on her- it was the only thing that worked for us. Now, I love Phoebe to bits and she has not tried to bite in a long time but I wouldn't 'socialise' with her quite as much as the other too- it's just not her way!