Fostering baby need advise.

[peachypink]

Here his set up right now. He’s pretty alert this morning and responding when I walk by which is a first since I’ve had him. He pretty much has stayed put where I put him so far but I’ve seen him move around and reposition without any trouble.

 

[AHBD]

That's a bit too tall for him right now. The uvb rays will only reach him at the very top of the log. You might really consider the plastic tote temporarily. You can put the same log in it and rig the bulb easily across the top.

 

[peachypink]

Wow, my guess is the breeder just dumped new hatchlings to raise their profit, there's no way he's 7 weeks old, and I'm not talking about his weight at 3g, he's thin, yes, but his overall length is that of maybe a 2-3 week old hatchling, closer to 2 weeks. So if the pet shop got them last Wednesday, I would bet that they were hatched the week prior. I doubt it's parasites or any other illness, they were just far too young to ship. DO NOT TRY TO GIVE HIM ANY MEDICATIONS!!!! The last thing he needs is treated for parasites or anything else by medications.

It's just going to be a case of will be eat enough to sustain life and get him through. I'd suggest overnighting or going out and buying either some Oxbow Critical Care or Reptaboost to get some calories/fat/protein in him, as baby food is mostly water. No crop needles, he's far too small, you'd kill him for sure. Instead, if you have an oral syringe or a Luer-Slip plastic syringe you can use to feed him the Reptaboost or Oxbow with, gently insert the tip of the syringe under his upper lip on the side of his mouth, back close to his ear. Then slide the tip of the syringe up his mouth towards the tip of his snout, keeping the tip of the syringe under his upper lip the entire time. Once the tip of the syringe reaches the front of his mouth he'll automatically open up, then you can push in a little of the food supplement, let him swallow it, then start over again and repeat, by inserting the tip of the syringe under his upper lip on the side of his mouth again, etc.

Thank you. Yes, i wouldn’t give meds unless I had gotten a fecal anyway. I had been doing the syringe in the lip but was still not getting him to open up fully.

He’s actually really active this morning! He’s pouncing at the pinheads and I’ve not seen him do that yet. Now catching them is another story.

Thanks for the warning on the crop needle. I had never tried it but was desperately seeking something to help him. I’m glad I didn’t even try.

Good Lord, what these breeders won’t try. Now I just have to get my friend to understand what she was sent. I’m annoyed that the other one didn’t make it. I’m greatful for the experience and knowledge I’m gaining but I wish i didn’t have to have this experience. I’ve dealt with young beardies and adults of course but never one this young. I felt I was pretty knowledgeable but I knew I needed help with this one. Thank you all.

 

[peachypink]

That's a bit too tall for him right now. The uvb rays will only reach him at the very top of the log. You might really consider the plastic tote temporarily. You can put the same log in it and rig the bulb easily across the top.

Yea, I was thinking that. He stays at the top right now so I haven’t been too concerned. I’ll see what I can do today. Luckily I am a stay at home mom so he’s monitored 24/7. I’ll also look and see where I can get some critical care or reptiboost today.

 

[AHBD]

That's GREAT if he's going after the crickets ! You most likely will not need to syringe feed him. And here's where a smaller tank comes in handy because he can get the crix more easily. But right now you can do this ...put 3-5 crickets in a jar with a pinch of calcium powder, shake them up until they're weak + dizzy, then drop them right near the baby. He will be able to snag them before they can escape....they see a weak insect as easy prey. Do that ASAP for the little guy, he'll probably grab them right up. Do that a few times using 3-5 crix at a time, then a few more as you see him eating them. [ hopefully ]

 

[peachypink]

And now again after unsuccessfully snagging anything he’s back to laying low and eyes closed.

 

[AHBD]

Did you try shaking up the crix in a jar to slow them down like I mentioned ? If not, give it a try. And if he doesn't go for those, smash one + lightly rub it on his snout.

 

[peachypink]

Did you try shaking up the crix in a jar to slow them down like I mentioned ? If not, give it a try. And if he doesn't go for those, smash one + lightly rub it on his snout.

Yup. I’ve done that.

 

[AHBD]

Be patient + try again later. In the mean time then offer the food via syringe. Be sure he gets hydrated too.

 

[NBGwen]

Maybe try putting the crix in the fridge for a little bit before feeding to also slow them down? He's such an adorable baby. Stupid breeder. I agree with others, no way he's 7 weeks.

 

[EllenD]

Yes, and unfortunately this is extremely common with dragon breeders, they often lie about the ages of the babies they sell, often right to people's faces when they are looking at the babies they have for sale. A reputable breeder, or at least any I know or have experience with, will not let a baby dragon go unless they are at least 7-8" long, weigh at least 10-20 grams, and have been eating live crickets and/or dubias on their own for at least a couple of weeks, if not a month. Most babies you see at Petco or PetSmart are right around a month old, which is still too young/small. I know the "Animal Manager" at my local Petco, and she told me that the "vendor" (mill is a better word, as one "vendor" supplies the entire Northeast region) they have been buying their baby dragons from for the past few years has a rule that they ship order as soon as the babies are 4.5" long. They have no age or weight policy, just 4.5" long, which I responded with "Most are 4.5" long when they hatch", and she then pointed out the tank of the tiniest babies you've ever seen that they have marked "New Arrivals, Not Yet For Sale".

So that's what it has come down to, it's up to the individual stores to assess the babies they get, and if they feel at all like they are too small, too thin, are lethargic and sleeping a lot, or are not eating live insects daily on their own, the individual stores must not let them leave the store until they feel comfortable with letting them go. They can take deposits and such, but they cannot let them go, especially to new owners that may not know anything about proper lighting, temperatures, diet, etc. So if your friend owns or is managing a private, independently owned pet shop and isn't required to order her reptiles or at least her dragons from a specific source/vendor, I would absolutely make sure that she knows that the breeder who she bought these 2 from was not at all honest with her, and that he definitely shipped her 2 hatchlings that were not more than 2 weeks old. As soon as I saw his little face/head and then his overall size I said to myself "That dragon just hatched a week or so ago"...I would try your best to educate her and let her know that this is not at all a rare thing and that it's happening every day with huge dragon mills, large scale bulk vendors, well-known private breeders, and even the very "reputable" and popular breeders that everyone in the bearded dragon world is aware of. The sooner they dump their hatchlings the sooner they make room for the next clutch and they aren't spending money feeding them, so their profits go up the sooner they ship hatchlings. I would not order from this breeder/vendor again, because the next time he might knowingly ship hatchlings that are sick with something like Adenovirus, Yellow Fungus, etc. That's the other thing these breeders do, they dump any sick dragons they can so they are no longer paying vet bills or having to worry about quarantining them. I got a PM like 2 months ago from a member who bought a baby Zero online from a VERY, VERY well-known, online breeder that we all know, she spent $500 on the baby and had picked her out from a numbered photo on this breeder's website (another scam) and the baby that showed up was not the baby in the photo, that was obvious, but this person spent a fortune on reptile specialist vet bills because the baby had advanced Gout, and there is no way the breeder wasn't aware of it. Then the breeder told her that they would give her a new baby from the next clutch of Zeros they had, whenever that would be, but would not reimburse a cent of the thousands in vet bills...

So I guess we're at the point where not only do individual pet buyers have to beware of unscrupulous breeders, but so do pet and reptile shop owners...

 

[peachypink]

Yes, and unfortunately this is extremely common with dragon breeders, they often lie about the ages of the babies they sell, often right to people's faces when they are looking at the babies they have for sale. A reputable breeder, or at least any I know or have experience with, will not let a baby dragon go unless they are at least 7-8" long, weigh at least 10-20 grams, and have been eating live crickets and/or dubias on their own for at least a couple of weeks, if not a month. Most babies you see at Petco or PetSmart are right around a month old, which is still too young/small. I know the "Animal Manager" at my local Petco, and she told me that the "vendor" (mill is a better word, as one "vendor" supplies the entire Northeast region) they have been buying their baby dragons from for the past few years has a rule that they ship order as soon as the babies are 4.5" long. They have no age or weight policy, just 4.5" long, which I responded with "Most are 4.5" long when they hatch", and she then pointed out the tank of the tiniest babies you've ever seen that they have marked "New Arrivals, Not Yet For Sale".

So that's what it has come down to, it's up to the individual stores to assess the babies they get, and if they feel at all like they are too small, too thin, are lethargic and sleeping a lot, or are not eating live insects daily on their own, the individual stores must not let them leave the store until they feel comfortable with letting them go. They can take deposits and such, but they cannot let them go, especially to new owners that may not know anything about proper lighting, temperatures, diet, etc. So if your friend owns or is managing a private, independently owned pet shop and isn't required to order her reptiles or at least her dragons from a specific source/vendor, I would absolutely make sure that she knows that the breeder who she bought these 2 from was not at all honest with her, and that he definitely shipped her 2 hatchlings that were not more than 2 weeks old. As soon as I saw his little face/head and then his overall size I said to myself "That dragon just hatched a week or so ago"...I would try your best to educate her and let her know that this is not at all a rare thing and that it's happening every day with huge dragon mills, large scale bulk vendors, well-known private breeders, and even the very "reputable" and popular breeders that everyone in the bearded dragon world is aware of. The sooner they dump their hatchlings the sooner they make room for the next clutch and they aren't spending money feeding them, so their profits go up the sooner they ship hatchlings. I would not order from this breeder/vendor again, because the next time he might knowingly ship hatchlings that are sick with something like Adenovirus, Yellow Fungus, etc. That's the other thing these breeders do, they dump any sick dragons they can so they are no longer paying vet bills or having to worry about quarantining them. I got a PM like 2 months ago from a member who bought a baby Zero online from a VERY, VERY well-known, online breeder that we all know, she spent $500 on the baby and had picked her out from a numbered photo on this breeder's website (another scam) and the baby that showed up was not the baby in the photo, that was obvious, but this person spent a fortune on reptile specialist vet bills because the baby had advanced Gout, and there is no way the breeder wasn't aware of it. Then the breeder told her that they would give her a new baby from the next clutch of Zeros they had, whenever that would be, but would not reimburse a cent of the thousands in vet bills...

So I guess we're at the point where not only do individual pet buyers have to beware of unscrupulous breeders, but so do pet and reptile shop owners...

It’s really sad and frustrating. I went in a chatted with her this morning and they are planning on letting this breeder have an ear full for sure. I’m thankful they are open to listen. I told her that’s it’s unfortunate but places like this are counting on a pet store not knowing enough to know what they were sent. And most don’t. I’m glad they are willing to let me foster and get this little guy bigger and healthier.

 

[peachypink]

Well, I think, I THINK, he ate 2 crickets this morning. I had 6 in there and now there are 4. But we did find one loose last night so I'm hoping he actually are them and they didn't just escape.

 

[EllenD]

Be careful about allowing loose crickets inside his tank, I know it's hard to get him to eat them on the spot while you're with him right now, but crickets tend to bite bearded dragons often because they're stationary targets, especially at night while they're sleeping, or in this case when they aren't moving around much. It's not uncommon for them to actually bite at their eyes at nighttime, and bites on their tails and toes are very common, and often become infected. So just be careful about letting them loose inside his tank, I'd hate for the little guy to get an infected bite right now.

Also, something I learned from a very large, well-known breeder a long time ago with very young babies is to not put more than 2 or 3 at the most in at one time with them, because any more crickets than that can actually scare them and overwhelm them and then they won't want to eat them. I'm glad he's becoming more active, I think he's going to be okay, he just needs to get over the overwhelming relocation stress/shipping stress he's gone through in the last week, once he settles in he should be fine.

 

[peachypink]

Be careful about allowing loose crickets inside his tank, I know it's hard to get him to eat them on the spot while you're with him right now, but crickets tend to bite bearded dragons often because they're stationary targets, especially at night while they're sleeping, or in this case when they aren't moving around much. It's not uncommon for them to actually bite at their eyes at nighttime, and bites on their tails and toes are very common, and often become infected. So just be careful about letting them loose inside his tank, I'd hate for the little guy to get an infected bite right now.

Also, something I learned from a very large, well-known breeder a long time ago with very young babies is to not put more than 2 or 3 at the most in at one time with them, because any more crickets than that can actually scare them and overwhelm them and then they won't want to eat them. I'm glad he's becoming more active, I think he's going to be okay, he just needs to get over the overwhelming relocation stress/shipping stress he's gone through in the last week, once he settles in he should be fine.

Yes, thank you. I actually have been feeding him in a separate bin, I move all his lights over when I put him in. That way I don't have to hunt them down in his tank and miss any, plus I can better monitor what he's eaten. That was, I thought I could monitor it until I found one loose. lol.

I think he'll be ok too. He even pooed today.