First time with hatchlings. Will they survive? Please Help!

[zaxblue]

We've had bearded dragons for a while but this is our first time breeding.

We were lucky enough to have a 100% hatch ratio. Every egg she laid in this clutch, hatched 63-64 days later.

They are only a few days old. I marked each ones back as it ate it's first crickets and I'm happy to say that they have all eaten something with most of them eating tons of crickets already.

My concern...
They were all fine up through their first day of eating. Unfortunately, 2 of them have developed this problem where they must think they're upside down. They tilt there head all the way back and eventually end up on their back. Sometimes they will run around just fine even though these 2 guys spend there time scratching against the glass instead of hunting crickets like most of their siblings. But most of the time they start twisting their heads back until they eventually end up on there backs. It's particularly bad when they make it to the water dish(less than .25" deep) where they squirm back and forth, flipping upside down side to side. At first I thought it was kinda cute until I realized that these 2 guys were completely disoriented. They seem like they are always super dizzy, drunk, or on some sort of acid trip.

I checked their ears to make sure they weren't clogged or something like that to throw off the equilibrium. Everything looked good. They're parents weren't related what-so-ever. The parents were also very well nourished. Mama averaged 30+ full gown winged male dusted dubia a week with a hearty daily appetite for collards/squash with occasional mangos/blueberries.

I'm assuming this is just some sort of birth defect and they will likely die. But, I'm really hoping someone else has experienced this same thing and had a happy ending. All replies to this post are greatly appreciated even if they don't have happy endings, lol.

Thanks for Reading!


IMG_0251 by zaxblue, on Flickr
This isn't an example of the dizziness... just a mother/child pic. 1 day old in picture.

 

[Gail]

I've seen this a few times and it has various causes. It could be a birth defect and would likely impair them or kill them, sorry to bring that news
It could also be a inner ear infection or respiratory infection. I'd separate them and remove the water dish just in case it is a infection, the humidity could make it worse. Make sure to bath them daily and dry them well before going back to the cage. In the case of a infection, they really do need antibiotics which means a trip to the vet.
I know the idea of loosing babies is really terrible, especially for first time breeders but all breeders loose babies at times. Survival of the fittest and all, not everyone will be healthy enough to survive.

 

[zaxblue]

Thanks for the reply.

My humidity level is pretty good. I have less than 1 oz. of water in a 40 gallon, open top breeder tank with a 160w MV.

I'm perfectly okay with and accepting of the laws of nature. However, I am a bit disappointed that the 2 babies in question are the best looking of the bunch. Oh, well :-(

I actually put one to bed early because he was having a particularly hard time for a bit there.

I wonder what would happen if I only woke him up to eat and then kept him in the dark with a heat mat set around 95 degrees so he could still digest his food. I wonder if he would be able to fight off an infection that way instead of burning all of his calories struggling to keep his balance. I'm curious if he would still be able to develop and grow and possible be able to grow out of a defect.

It would be interesting to see if he would even stay sleeping if he was in the dark for 20+ hours a day. I suppose he wouldn't be able to build any muscle. Then again, maybe he would be all better in a couple day. I guess, if he's likely going to die anyways, it's worth a shot.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[spurlee01]

Did your temperatures ever get to high during incubation? I have heard of neurological problems like this associated with temperature spikes :?

 

[zaxblue]

Thanks for your reply. I really appreciate any suggestions or help I get.

My temps were usually between 83 and 84 and never above 85. In fact, we've kept the air conditioning on all summer even we were out of town or it wasn't needed just for the sake of the eggs.

I also keep a wireless thermometer in there with the temp display unit literally right next to the TV so it's always visible. It also has a built in alarm that I set to go off if temps ever hit 87. It's never went off.

I'm not sure about both of them but I'm fairly certain that one of the babies in question was one of the very first to hatch and likely the actual first hatch. I'm not sure if it's normal but I thought it was interesting that all of my eggs hatched in order.... What I mean is, each successive hatch was right next to a previous hatch. So, they kind of hatched in a wave from one side of the egg container to the other. I wasn't sure if this was because they were coaxed into hatching by the rustling of the previously hatched dragon next to it or if it was because that side of the egg container was closer to the heating element in my incubator and because of that, the temps were just a tad bit warmer. I had moved them before I noticed the trend so I'm not sure if that side was actually closer to the heating element.

It's just a normal still air incubator that's almost identical to the standard hovabator except it has square corners instead of rounded corners.

 

[zaxblue]

By the way, what size crickets are best for hatchlings?

I ordered 1000 1/8 inch that arived Friday afternoon. Now it's Sunday, less that 48 hours later and I'm just about out. I'll place another order tomorrow and get those Tuesday afternoon. But, I'll probably be out of by tomorrow afternoon.

The 1/8" I ordered were actually closer to 1/4" if you were to measure them with a ruler ignoring the antenna. However, there were a couple that came in the order that were way over 1/4" and they were gobbled up just fine. So, I'm probably going to order 2000 of the 1/4" tomorrow. I hope they don't grow to big before my dragons eat them up. I also hope I don't find out the hard way that 1/4"+ crickets are too big and I end up with a whole clutch of babies dying from impaction.

What's even more surprising is that I've gone through several hundred crickets and I haven't seen a single dragon poop yet. Then again, these guys are still only 4-5 days.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Sounds like you could have a couple of star gazers.
This is usually the result of a bacterial or viral infection.
A round of antibiotics can usually fix this if the little one survives the treatment.
If left untreated things wont end well for the pooper.

 

[missnikki]

When i had my first baby dragons three of them were doing the same thing as well. I took them to the vet and he said it is the beginning of calcium defiency. These little ones were not absorbing the calcium like the other ones were. I got the liquid calcium and mixed it with baby food and water and fed that to them out of a needleless syringe ( they loved it by the way after a while they would attack the syringe) apparently they absorb the liquid calcium better and within a week maybe two all the disorientation was gone. This is just my two cents because you had mentioned that they look drunk and that is the same way my three were. Now they are the best eaters and so hyper and love to climb.

 

[spurlee01]

How are the babies?