Fatty liver disease, milk thistle dosage?

[DovahDad]

Hey all, I'm concerned that my 1 year old beardie, Nova, may have fatty liver disease. The vet agrees that there's a good chance he does as well, and recommended lactulose, which I'll give him soon.

I also have heard good things about milk thistle, and I'm wondering if anyone who has had a good experience with milk thistle can advise me regarding: (1) the source where you got the milk thistle extract, and (2) the dosage. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Taterbug]

Since your already working with a vet they maybe able to help dose for you, I'd go that route if possible. You may be able to call or email the vet to discuss it. My vet prescribed hepato-support (I think that's what it's called) which is milk thistle and b-vitamins. She sent a little vial of it and a needless syringe. The dose would be based on the concentration and weight though, I'm sure. It was effective at lowering his bile acids, which was the diagnostic my vet was looking at for liver function.

 

[DovahDad]

I'm glad the Hepato-Support was able to help your beardie's liver! Hopefully it'll help Nova out as well.

I did talk to the vet later today, and he suggested 3-4 drops of milk thistle. Not exactly precise, but I don't think it'll hurt him to have 4 drops. I gave him 4 this evening and (aside from flipping right out and running around the cage upon tasting it :lol: ) he shows no ill effects. I'm hopeful that between the milk thistle, the lactulose, and the all-veggie smoothie I'll be force feeding him, he'll be in better shape soon.

 

[Taterbug]

I'm glad the Hepato-Support was able to help your beardie's liver! Hopefully it'll help Nova out as well.

I did talk to the vet later today, and he suggested 3-4 drops of milk thistle. Not exactly precise, but I don't think it'll hurt him to have 4 drops. I gave him 4 this evening and (aside from flipping right out and running around the cage upon tasting it :lol: ) he shows no ill effects. I'm hopeful that between the milk thistle, the lactulose, and the all-veggie smoothie I'll be force feeding him, he'll be in better shape soon.

That sounds about what Pepper was getting, I think his was bacon flowered, he loved it. The weirdo. I hope the treatments helps out your little one

 

[DovahDad]

Thanks - let's hope so. And bacon flavored? I may have to try some myself!

 

[DovahDad]

I actually had one more question, Tater, if you can recall: how many times a day did you administer the extract? Once, twice? My vet didn't prescribe it (though he said it won't hurt and to give 3-4 drops) so I don't know how often to administer. So far I've been doing it once a day, but if I could do more I would.

 

[Taterbug]

I actually had one more question, Tater, if you can recall: how many times a day did you administer the extract? Once, twice? My vet didn't prescribe it (though he said it won't hurt and to give 3-4 drops) so I don't know how often to administer. So far I've been doing it once a day, but if I could do more I would.

I want to say it was every 12 hours, he'd get a dose in the morning and one before bed. He was on it for 4-6 weeks and then had his blood work rechecked. Since his values were significantly reduced but he seemed to be off his food while on it we stopped the meds and he got tested again after another 4-6 weeks. His values were still down so we decided to maintain a lower fat diet (cut way back on super worms) and monitor him.

 

[DovahDad]

I see. I think I'll also try a few drops morning and night to help him along. I can't tell if it's affecting his appetite, since he's already off food. Interesting that super worms may have been the culprit for you - I suspect that's what got Nova into trouble as well. What feeders did you switch to? I would be feeding dubias now, if he'd eat.

 

[Taterbug]

I see. I think I'll also try a few drops morning and night to help him along. I can't tell if it's affecting his appetite, since he's already off food. Interesting that super worms may have been the culprit for you - I suspect that's what got Nova into trouble as well. What feeders did you switch to? I would be feeding dubias now, if he'd eat.

The vet suggested to limit it to 10 supers per week, the rest he gets offered are roaches (he prefers the freshly molted white ones) and solider fly larvae and his salad. He gobbles up hornworms when I get them too. That he is all too happy to eat supers and doesn't always refuse other feeders the vet suggested he is being picky and I need to be a bit tougher. He's gotten better since being limited on the supers too. He has never eaten as much as I'd expected but he s not loosing weight and has good fat stores so we aren't too worried at this point. It may just be that he doesn't need to eat but who would turn down their favorites?

 

[DovahDad]

Sounds like your little guy is on a good, varied diet - and yeah, he may be a bit picky. Don't let that little tyrant run the show!

My mistake was feeding our guy supers as a staple for about two months - as much as 5-10 every day. :? I'm really hoping we didn't do too much permanent damage. I'll take him to the vet again in the next couple weeks after the deworming, lactulose, and milk thistle and see about some liver tests.

 

[Taterbug]

Sounds like your little guy is on a good, varied diet - and yeah, he may be a bit picky. Don't let that little tyrant run the show!

My mistake was feeding our guy supers as a staple for about two months - as much as 5-10 every day. :? I'm really hoping we didn't do too much permanent damage. I'll take him to the vet again in the next couple weeks after the deworming, lactulose, and milk thistle and see about some liver tests.

That's basically what happened with my Little Tyrant as well. He went off his roaches and I was really excited he was eating the supers... Then I kept caving into his demands. We don't negotiate anymore.

From what I understand from talking to my vet Fatty Liver is hard to 100% diagnose but that some of the things they test for can give a clue, along with diet/husbandry history. Fortunately the liver can regenerate in most cases/if its not too advanced and diet is adjusted.

 

[DovahDad]

LOL if I've learned anything from owning a beardie, it's that it's best not to negotiate with terrorists. :lol:

I'm glad to hear that fatty liver can be reversed if not too far advanced. I'm hopeful he isn't too far gone, since he does still move around, bask, and make vigorous prison breaks and vertical climbs whenever he's bathed. :roll: The beardies I've seen with really bad fatty liver don't seem up to any of that, so I'm cautiously optimistic.