Fairly new Owner, Need help!

[jdeanjr]

Hi guys, I have had a beardie almost a year now, seems happy and healthy. Fairly active, loves being with us and out of his tank. We recently got another and I have been researching just to make sure i have done everything right. I will list what we have and please give me advice, what i should do different? if anything. All the concerns and posts here are making me second guess my knowledge lol.

Spike- little over a year old, Bought from petsmart, was 6-7 inches when we got her, a little over 14-15 now. 40gal, 38-16-16 tank, one, 150watt basking bulb over the log, 18" reptisun 10.0 uvb tub, over the hammoc(where she spends most of her time). and a 100 heat lamp kind of in the middle to regulate the cooler temps.

Temps: 93-96 on the warm side in the middle(on the hammoc), 98-102 on the log about 5-6 inches down from the lamp, and 78-82 on the ground of the cool side, ground on the hot side is 91-92..

Activities: fairly active, spends alot of time on the hammoc, walks around the tank throughout the day, and sits on the stone pretty often as well. doesnt bask much.
poops every 2-3 days, pretty much regularly lol. eats crickets very well, never has hesitated to eat. loves her greens. (i gave my wife the list of what he can and should have and she makes it happen)not sure on specifics of what she eats each day. I think thats all for spike.(name came before we found out it was a she lol)

The new beardie:
bought it 1\29\13, its in a 20gal with carpet. for this one we have a 100w reptisun uv lamp(all the reviews said a must have for uvb and heat all in one), and a 60w regular light on the middle to regulate temps. hot side is 91 on the floor, 104-107 on the log about 4 inches from the bulb, cool side is 77-79 on the floor. first day was ok, wouldnt eat much, second day, ate several crickets, not much greens, we are on day 3, ate a few crickets(4-6). still no greens. he has had very dark stress marks, i assume normal for a baby newbie, i gave him a bath today, went solid white, no stress marks, they came back a bit when i put him back in his tank. very active little guy. still shy but i think thats normal. has pooped each day since we got him so thats good. he spends alot of time on the log but does run around exploring a bit too.

thats my situation, SORRY it is so long. I just want to make sure if theres any changes i need to make i do so before its too late. please please please reply and help me out, i posted about the babies light and got no response. thanks in advance and will post pics of both beardies and their setup...

 

[jdeanjr]

here are pics, obviously size will tell who is who. lol

sorry about the poo in spikes, she literally just laid it while i was taking pics of the baby.

 

[diamc]

[Moved here from General Discussion forum since it is about enclosures.]

Hi, welcome to the forum. You have 2 very nice looking beardies.

Could you fill us in on the type of thermometer you're using? I have to say that it seems like you're using a high amount of wattage in both of those tanks so I want to make sure you are getting accurate readings. Once you fill us in on that, we can go further, thanks.

 

[jdeanjr]

Well.....lol. I had cheap petco ones at first. I have not had the chance to get a good one so I have been using my higher end meat thermometer. It doesn't stay in the tank but I check it 3-5 times a day

 

[diamc]

Thanks for answering the questions. Unfortunately, the meat thermometer won't give you the readings you need and are probably quite far off and that is the reason neither one of them are basking under their lights. The only way to get good readings are with either an infrared temperature gun or a digital thermometer & long wire with a probe on the end. If you have a Walmart near you, they have the AcuRite brand probe which will give you both basking & cool side temps as well as a humidity level at the same time & it only costs about $12.00. What you do is place the probe end right on (touching) the basking log or rock and place the thermometer part way over on the bottom of the cool side. You wait about 45 min to an hr for the temps to stop rising, then the "out" reading is for the basking temp and the "in" reading for the cool side. The strip fluorescent UVB's will need to be 6 to 8" from your beardie while in the basking spot so something else to consider.

I actually feel that they are both over heating which can cause rapid dehydration so I would suggest giving them each a bath for at least 15 to 20 minutes to make sure they are well hydrated.

When using a 40 gallon tank, you may not even need a 100 watt bulb, it depends on the distance of the basking spot but a 75 watt may be enough.

We usually don't recommend using a mercury vapor bulb in a tank as small as a 20 gallon because those bulbs put out a lot of heat & a lot of UVB so they are actually too strong in a tank that size. The only way you could possibly safely use one would be to put the MVB on a lamp stand to raise it much higher over the tank.

I would suggest as a minimum, removing at least the 2nd bulbs in the 40 gallon tank & replacing the MVB in the small tank with a 75 watt household light bulb until you find out what the true temps are.

Once you get the good readings, would be a good idea to either move the hammock under the basking light in the one tank or move the UVB tube over near the basking light as its best to have them both together so your beardie can get the benefit from both bulbs at the same time.

I'm gonna send this response right now so you can read it & make some adjustments to try to help them both out. Don't mean to be blunt but I am trying to send this quickly to save time. We can discuss more later. :wink:

 

[Claudiusx]

I agree with Diane, you need to get a better means of measuring temperatures.

Temperatures are arguably one of the most important aspects of a dragons health. I'd argue them to be more important than even remembering to feed your dragon in extreme cases.

If you are not already bathing, I would start bathing them regularly, to keep them hydrated, especially your new baby.

I don't see any specific questions or concerns you have about either of your dragons, so I assume you are just wanting a check up on your husbandry correct?

Like mentioned, get a better thermometer ASAP. Find out your actual temperatures (basking SURFACE, hot side, and cool side) and report them back to us and we can see whats going on with that.

I personally only recommend the lighting setup of either a reptisun 10.0 or arcadia 12% along with a bright white basking bulb. I don't really like or trust the MVB's, although some have had success with them. They are much more finicky than one of the tubes I mentioned alongside a bright white light.

-Brandon

 

[jdeanjr]

ok, so i feel so bad. i got the dual thermometer you said, one for each tank. withing 10 minutes, the 40gal tank up by the basking spot on the log, 128 and climing, cool side 82. i removed the log, put the probe on the stone that on the floor of the tank, stone area is 100. cool side is 76 with 39% humidity. so with that being said, should i move the log to the cool side for climbing so he cant get close to the bulb? or what would you guys advise.

on the baby beardie. i am not sure how hes not dead, the daily baths i assume, 147 the highest point of the log, 84 on the cool side, turned off the 100repti sun, (going to take it back tomorrow and get another tube light for uvb). with just a 60w household bulb, tank is 94-96 on the basking spot, 75 on the cool side, around 40% humidity. with the 100w basking bulb, 118-122 on the basking area, 76 on the cool side, 40 humidity.

is it better to have it a bit hot or a bit cool until tomorrow when i get a 75w bulb to try to get the accurate temp.
one more question. when i buy the tube light, is the zoomed bulb ok or do i need the reptisun one? the local pet stor sells the zoomed with the fixtures. and all the stand alone fixtures from the home depot and walmart are a few watts shy of the limit, like the 24 inch is a 17 watt and the 24 in bulb is 20 watts. Please voice your opinions, what should i do.

and to answer the question, no i had no real concerns, just something didne seem right, mainly the undercolor was never "happy white" always stress marks. so i figured id see what yall thought! Thank you soooo much for advising those temp probes. i can not beleive i was so far off.

 

[diamc]

Thank you for listening to us, we were hoping you would so that you could help them to feel & act better. It's a good thing you were doing daily baths. Great that you found the dual thermometers too. They work very well.

For now with the 40 gallon tank, you could use a 75 or 100 watt standard household light bulb until you get to the store to get others tomorrow. Or, you could move the log to the cool side for now. Perhaps he will just lay on the stone where it is 100 right now. Or you could remove the 150 watt bulb completely and see what the temps are with just the 100 watt bulb, could move the log away from the heat bulb a little to help make it cooler. Make sure every time you check the temps, that you wait 45 min to an hr before getting the final readings. For the adult, you will want to aim for a basking temp of 101 to about 103 but they usually don't like it any hotter than that at his age and a cool side temp between 78 to 82.

Wow, 147, that explains why he was avoiding the lights. Good that you will be taking the 100 watt MBV back. Since he is so young, his basking temp should be 105 to 110 but no higher with the cool side the same as the other tank, 78 to 82. Can you raise his basking spot a little to try to bring the basking temp up to about 100 for now? If you can't, would be safer to have it at 96 rather than 118 to 122. If you're still using the big sand colored stone that the little one was sitting on in the close-up picture, you could put a big catalog or something similar underneath it to raise it a little closer to the 60 watt bulb, that should help bring the temp closer to 100 or slightly more.

For the babies UVB light, you will need to get the Repti-Sun 10.0 strip fluorescent, not a Repti-GLO, those are bad. You also need to make sure that you don't get a coil or compact UVB bulb as they are also VERY bad. For the hood, you should be able to get a standard fluorescent light, just remove the bulb in it, replace with the same size UVB bulb and then leave the plastic cover off.

Would be a good idea to give them frequent baths as they both do look kinda dehydrated. The adults skin looks very dry. To show they are well hydrated, look at the tops of their heads, the sides right on the tops of their heads should be filled out, not flat. When you bathe them, you will see that area get fuller even while they are still in the water. Offer them both drinks either with your fingers or with a plastic medicine dropper by putting drops of water on their noses. Try to keep the humidity in their tanks about 30 to 40 so if you have water dishes in their tanks & the humidity goes above that, take out the dishes. Also be sure you don't mist either of them while they are in their tanks.

Let us know how you make out with the bulbs & temps tomorrow. Good job going out & getting the good thermometers right away.

 

[jdeanjr]

Thank you so much for the help!

What i have now, for the older one, 100w petco basking light, at the stone it is flexes from 100-101, i have the reptisun uvb bulb and fixture right next to the lamp on top, so pretty much wether she is basking or laying in the hammoc, shes absorbing uvb. cool side is 76-77. 39% humidity. This all after about 45 min to an hour of sitting. with this set the way it is, do i need do change anything? bulbs? etc... hot side away from the basking area is 91-94.

with the little guy i will try to get the fixture so i dont have to buy the oen from petco, do i need to mount it inside or set on top of the screen? after an hour of sitting temps in the babies tank is 96 basking, raised it an inch...waiting to see the results.

 

[jdeanjr]

here is an update. the 40gal is good i think, 99-100 on the basking stone, 76-77 cool side.

20gal baby, put the 60watt in a different lamp fixture, basking spot is 108-109. 73 on the cool side.

i am headed to get the tube light now, i will probably buy the bigger one, put it in the 40 gal. and move the 18in to the 20gal. that should be ok right?

thanks again so very much for all the help, i cant beleive how far my tanks were off

 

[diamc]

Hi, great job. I will write more later but wanted to let you know that both tanks sound SO much better.

One more suggestion, if you can, try to raise the cool side up just a little on the 20 gallon tank. If you have a 25 watt standard household light bulb, that should do the trick. Just make sure you put the dome for the 25 watt bulb way over to the cool side as you don't really want the basking temp any hotter.

Yes, putting the tube light in the 40 gallon is a good plan as well as putting the 18" UVB in the 20 gallon tank.

Glad to hear it is all working out. Would love to see some new pictures of your beardies actually basking later. And, be sure to give them both a 15 to 20 min bath today to totally rehydrate them.

Thanks again for listening and rethinking their temps. They will both be MUCH happier.

 

[jdeanjr]

Alright, So I got a 60w flood light for basking in the 40gal. 30ubv tube light, and a 60w regular ligth bulb on the cool side. Our temps are 97 at the basking spot, 79 on the cool side, 39%humidity. today is the first day have ever seen her spend so much time on the rock, she still has alot of dark stress marks but i totally re did her tank so she has stuff to do but cant get too high to the lamp. she used to poo every 2-3 days, she has pooed yesterday and already today. thats a good thing right?

on the baby in the 20gal. i put the 60w light in a different dome for basking, have the 18" uvb strip, and no other lights. i tried a smaller wattage light on the cool side but it rises basking up above 110. temps in the tank are 109 for basking, 75 on the cool side, and 39% humidity. he has at more crickets today than he has since we got him, which i assume is a great thing. he is very active, very alert.

stress marks aside, both "act" like they are happier, more alert, active, ect. I have never seen the spike sit under the heat lamp and gap or what it is called when she opens her mouth to regulate temps.

I can not thank you enough for the help!!! I am so glad i will be able to provide the correct life for them. super excited.

here are a few pics, the new setup in the 40gal, and 20gal.





:?:

 

[diamc]

Great to hear & see. Awesome that Spike is pooping more frequently and is enjoying basking too. Yes, it's a good thing that he is cleaning himself out daily now too.

Certainly a good sign that the baby is more active, alert AND eating better already.

Any time you change anything in their setups, it can cause stress marks, that is normal. As the days go by, they should fade away as they both get used to their new setups.

One thing I did want to mention is that Spike should be a little closer to his UVB. In one of my other posts above, I had brought up the fact that the strip UVB's should be about 6 to 8" from them while they are in their basking spots. So, for now, and since his basking temp is only 97 (can go up to 102 or so for an adult), you could actually either move the 1/2 log from the cool side & place on the basking spot on his highest stone to raise him a little higher OR move the hammock (which I think he always liked to lay on) to the basking spot making it higher than the rocks for now. Of course, you will have to take another basking reading of either the 1/2 log or the hammock, whichever you decide to use. ( ) Then later on, once they adjust, you could actually suspend both of the UVB's inside the tanks as the screen does filter out some of the UVB rays. There are many ways to do that and I can help you. I even did it when using the same type hoods. But, the hardest & biggest part is overwith, you have great UVB lights & the temps are now optimal. Here's a picture I found in the Enclosure forum to give you an idea showing a UVB in the tank but the hood isn't quite the same as you are using but will kinda show you how it looks.

Let me know if you have any questions. When you're ready, there are a few other things I would like to mention about calcium, vitamins, etc too to make sure all is perfect. Give yourself a pat on the back. :wink:

 

[jdeanjr]

this is the hood and light we have, http://www.petco.com/product/115855/Zilla-Desert-UV-T8-Terrarium-Strip-Light-Fixture.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-ProductListTopRated_Reptile_4-_-Zilla%20Desert%20UV%20T8%20Terrarium%20Strip%20Light%20Fixture-115855 i have read and read and i am taking it back, petco doesnt sell reptisun tubes, only the cheaper zilla 50 ones. but i found petsmart does sell the reptisun so i am getting ready to head to home depot, grab the fixture and then petsmart for the light. I read on the forums that too close to the uvb will mess with their eyes, youve seen mysetups, if you say its safe to put inside, inside it will go. lol

i will update you on everything when its done. refilled spikes greens, and after about an hour and half the basking temp is 104. stress marks are lightly there but gone away alot.

as for the baby, doing great it seams. at 4 or 5 crickets earlier, a few peices of the greens. and only gets stress marks when i walk up the the tank out of no where.

you may already have told me, if so im sorry. but i do need the reptisun 10.0 over the one i bought correct?

 

[diamc]

Hi, the hood is fine, but you're right that Zilla UVB light is NOT good. You may very well be able to put the Repti-Sun 10.0 bulb in the Zilla brand fixture, I suggest you try that to save you some money as there is nothing wrong with using that particular hood as long as the better bulb fits.

The 6 to 8" is what is recommended according to the testing of those particular Repti-Sun bulbs and as long as you have a bright white basking bulb alongside it and the basking bulb you have is fine and can continue to use the heat bulb on the screen even with the UVB mounted inside the tank.

Great that Spike needed his greens refilled, guess he's enjoying them. The basking temp is good, does he seem to like that temp? He isn't gaping (holding his mouth open) a lot, is he? Did you have to move the 1/2 log or hammock to the basking side in order to get the 104 reading? Good to hear that the stress marks are almost non-existent too.

Good sign that the baby has eaten a few crickets & greens as well. If the pet store instructed you on feeding crickets to your baby, they may not have given the exact recommendation. Since he/she is so young, you can offer all the appropriately sized (no larger than the space between the eyes) 2 to 3 times a day and all he prefers to eat in about 10 to 15 minutes, then be sure to remove any uneaten ones. One of those feedings a day should be dusted with calcium with D3 for 5 days a wk and then dust the crickets with vitamins on one feeding the other 2 days a wk. Makes it easier to dust with calcium Monday through Friday, then the vitamins on the weekend.