Dubia Experiment

[suzuki4life]

2 66 qt tubs of dubia.

375 adults each 1.10 tub (x2 tubs)

room temp 64 degrees

feed: chick feed 20% protein, carrots, oranges

I just sorted for new nymphs. Sorter holes are 3/8"

measured by volume. Roughly 3500 dubia in 4 weeks.

 

[DragonsInKansas]

So what exactly is the experiment?

 

[suzuki4life]

So what exactly is the experiment?

to show the viability of dubia and in what social setup. They are breeding at below the commonly expressed temperature but is this due to them creating needed heat in their own numbers?

I have many other colonies at 84 degrees(ambient) and with higher numbers within the colonies. Output per month is over triple per tub. Trying to establish max and bare minimum standards.

These 2 tubs will remain at 64 degrees for another 3-4 months.

This summer I plan to place 2 colonies at 110 degrees(ambient) to try a similar experiment

Humidity on both setups will be limited to 40-60%.

 

[Triage]

Have you measured the temperature "inside" of the colony crate?

BTW- I know where you going with this Suzuki, I remember our conversation regarding the desert temperatures, I am very interested in your results. I just want to make sure your accounting for everything. Your right that the colony could produce heat. Do you have a laser thermometer? You could check for "hot spots" inside the colony. I know with my colony, the majority seem to hang out in a big mass with individuals travelling throughout the other egg crates. For lack of a better term I will use the term "swarm" to describe this. I would be interested it know if your colony does the same, and what is the temperature of the swarm vs the rest of the inside of the crate.

 

[suzuki4life]

Have you measured the temperature "inside" of the colony crate?

BTW- I know where you going with this Suzuki, I remember our conversation regarding the desert temperatures, I am very interested in your results. I just want to make sure your accounting for everything. Your right that the colony could produce heat. Do you have a laser thermometer? You could check for "hot spots" inside the colony. I know with my colony, the majority seem to hang out in a big mass with individuals travelling throughout the other egg crates. For lack of a better term I will use the term "swarm" to describe this. I would be interested it know if your colony does the same, and what is the temperature of the swarm vs the rest of the inside of the crate.

No heat is added to the individual tub so inside the tub is holding true to the ambient temperature verified by my Cen Tech Pyrometer and verified with a mercury thermometer (showing ambient and tub surface temperature is the same inside and outside the tub)

Your comment, if I am understanding it correctly, deals with the concept of them producing heat. This experiment is based solely on the very vague concept of life and death, weights and output. Hopefully, when the experiment is concluded and the roaches are counted once again, each colony will consist of 350 roaches each or less. Then the myth that dubia roaches can not reproduce below 68 degrees (some say 70) will be broken. Next winter, I will lower the tolerance another 4 degrees if they are successful as they appear they are.

 

[wes]

Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment. I hope you continue to do so.

I thought it was that they wouldn't mate below 68F. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the gestation period is four weeks, all of your nymphs would have been from females already pregnant before you started the experiment.

 

[suzuki4life]

very possible. We will determine if my findings are truly accurate at the end of the 2nd month. However we know they will not halt their gestation or absorb their offspring if conditions are below 65 degrees. Month 2,3 and 4 will determine if they actually mate and reproduce.

 

[Triage]

Your comment, if I am understanding it correctly, deals with the concept of them producing heat. This experiment is based solely on the very vague concept of life and death, weights and output.

I was referring back to your own question:

They are breeding at below the commonly expressed temperature but is this due to them creating needed heat in their own numbers?

So therefore, I am simply wondering if the dubia mass are all huddled together on one egg crate and if so, what is the temperature of the mass of dubia?

 

[suzuki4life]

They huddle together somewhat...but if they do or don't is that relevant?

All most of us care about is if they live and if they reproduce. I am just trying to prove what needs to be given to achieve that goal.

 

[Triage]

I am not trying to be argumentative with you. But I DO feel it is relevant. You must have as well, or you wouldn't have brought up the question. In mass, Dubia will create heat. Just as any living thing does. This mass, could potentially be creating enough heat to allow the dubia to be mating. You have already said the mating is slower at the lower temps. But to be quite honest with you, if you are telling everyone that Dubia will breed in 65 degree temperatures just fine, then most of the owners are not going to want them in the house. You are going to lose a few, there is no way around it. I know of "two" nymphs that are somewhere in my garage. My garage is a nice cool 65 degrees in the summer. So basically, if your hypothesis is correct, I have a VERY good chance of finding more in my garage when summer comes. That is unacceptable to most people. You may be perfectly correct, I don't know. But if they are going to be breeding in my 65 degree garage, then we have problems.

 

[suzuki4life]

They have survived below 40 for 4 days straight. So yes I would consider them as a species to be aware of risks with. But they are rather slow moving and seem easy enough to kill.

As for the discussion, to ease the idea of 2 mating then you would need to only house 2 and put them through the experiment. I am looking at this as what a breeder has to offer them to be productive. Not as what they are capable or their limit is to avoid infecting your house. Many people here are placing them in "warm" rooms and logically should be aware they can survive and quite possibly reproduce in that room.

I personally have my mass insects in a separate building. And crows here seem to really like dead or alive dubia..... When I dump my frass on my compost heap, the crows swarm.

 

[clear]

4 Weeks is not long enough for an experiment with insets.

 

[suzuki4life]

4 Weeks is not long enough for an experiment with insets.

um time frame is 4-6 months.

 

[Ihaggerty1313]

They have survived below 40 for 4 days straight. So yes I would consider them as a species to be aware of risks with. But they are rather slow moving and seem easy enough to kill.

I'm only refering to this statement above, not your experiment:

So in essence you're dismissing any and all credible information and cold hard evidence (no pun intended) that Scientists, Entomologists, biologists (any "ists" I forgot you can insert here) alike have proven when it comes to whether or not Blaptica Dubia Cockroaches are an invasive species? Now I'm not knocking your experiment at all. Heck I'd love to see these guys breed in cooler temps. If this ever proved out I wouldn't have to waste 1/2 hour of my day, every single day answering heating questions for people (not that I mind but my fingers start to hurt from typing after a while). But to even elude to the fact that B. Dubia can infest a house is just bad info and 110% false.

To clear things up for anyone reading this thread including yourself it is a well proven fact that Blaptica Dubia Cockroaches do not infest structures even in their native homelands of South America. We've been keeping Dubia as feeders in the European Pet Trade and American pet trade for over 20 years w/ not 1 documented case of infestation. I'm sure people have dumped a bin here and there or had a "Filepe' " run the coop but that's the bottom line. 0 infestations. Why? Because B. Dubia are not an invasive species. Of the 4,000 or so known species of cockroach only 12 are invasive and considered pests to human beings. All of which originate in Asia, and Germany.

Alright lets get back to your experiment, cuz I'm sorta eager to see if this pans out.

-Ian
http://www.theroachranch.com

 

[suzuki4life]

They have survived below 40 for 4 days straight. So yes I would consider them as a species to be aware of risks with. But they are rather slow moving and seem easy enough to kill.

I'm only refering to this statement above, not your experiment:

So in essence you're dismissing any and all credible information and cold hard evidence (no pun intended) that Scientists, Entomologists, biologists (any "ists" I forgot you can insert here) alike have proven when it comes to whether or not Blaptica Dubia Cockroaches are an invasive species? Now I'm not knocking your experiment at all. Heck I'd love to see these guys breed in cooler temps. If this ever proved out I wouldn't have to waste 1/2 hour of my day, every single day answering heating questions for people (not that I mind but my fingers start to hurt from typing after a while). But to even elude to the fact that B. Dubia can infest a house is just bad info and 110% false.

To clear things up for anyone reading this thread including yourself it is a well proven fact that Blaptica Dubia Cockroaches do not infest structures even in their native homelands of South America. We've been keeping Dubia as feeders in the European Pet Trade and American pet trade for over 20 years w/ not 1 documented case of infestation. I'm sure people have dumped a bin here and there or had a "Filepe' " run the coop but that's the bottom line. 0 infestations. Why? Because B. Dubia are not an invasive species. Of the 4,000 or so known species of cockroach only 12 are invasive and considered pests to human beings. All of which originate in Asia, and Germany.

Alright lets get back to your experiment, cuz I'm sorta eager to see if this pans out.

-Ian
http://www.theroachranch.com

your are also referring to parts of the world where they keep their chickens indoors and livestock roam freely right? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Never the intent to prove they are invasive or not, however I doubt any species has the ability to "want" to be a pest. They go where the food, water and heat are.